Split

0:01 Lee Good evening, everybody. Lee here. our regular listeners will know that we recently did a supernatural stories episode, or not, depending on your beliefs.

0:10 Lee but it seems to have gone down quite well and we've spoken to a few people who said they've got interesting stories of their own. So, as we tempted the idea at the end of our last episode, we're going to do a follow-up at some point.

0:23 Lee So if any of you have stories of your own that you think would be interesting that you wouldn't mind us sharing with the listeners,

0:29 Lee feel free to either record them and email them over to us at [email protected].

0:36 Lee or otherwise, you can type them out and send them to us and we will read them out on the show.

0:43 Lee if you'd rather not use your name, we will use your first name, otherwise, but if you would rather go under an alias, include that in the message and we'll be sure to use that.

0:52 Lee Thanks very much and enjoy the show.

2:00 Lee Good evening, and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.

2:02 Chris I'm Chris.

2:03 Adam I'm Adam.

2:04 Lee And we are here, as promised, this evening to discuss the 2016 M. Night Shyamalan movie Split.

2:12 Lee we there will be spoilers, there will be swearing, and just to warn you, obviously, as this is part of a trilogy, we will be discussing the other movies later on and there will be spoilers for those as well.

2:27 Adam Unbreakable and Glass that we might be spoiling as well.

2:32 Lee so, Chris, as this was your first viewing, I'm guessing of Split, what did you make of it?

2:41 Chris Is is it gonna be predictable, my answer, do you think? At this point?

2:46 Chris So, it's got Anya Taylor-Joy. I didn't know she was in it. That was a lovely pleasant surprise, you know.

2:54 Chris fantastic, she was.

2:57 Chris And now, I've heard you mention him several times, James McAvoy.

3:01 Chris I totally recognized him when I saw him.

3:05 Chris I don't know where else I've seen him.

3:09 Adam He's young Charles Xavier in the you know when they in X-Men when they started doing First Class, like they went back and he was younger.

3:17 Chris It's been a long time, but that is sounding okay.

3:21 Adam Yeah, so he's

3:23 Chris That could be it then.

3:24 Lee that role as well.

3:26 Adam Sorry.

3:27 Chris Was he in it?

3:28 Lee Like I say, did he cameo in Deadpool as that character as well? There was a point where he past the door and he sort it's him and he sort of pushes the door shut so you can't see which X-Men are in the room.

3:35 Adam Yeah, he's Deadpool 2 he's in like but he yeah, so he's in First Class, Days of Future Past and Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.

3:44 Chris Okay.

3:44 Adam he's there's a really good film with him The Last King of Scotland, which is absolutely

3:51 Adam fucking amazing, which is about

3:53 Chris Not a horror.

3:54 Adam Not not a horror, well, to not a horror to a certain extent, it's basically it's about a guy who ended up as Idi Amin's official physician and Idi Amin, interesting fella.

4:02 Adam

4:04 Adam But yeah, he's in it, he's apparently he's Mr. Tumnus in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

4:10 Adam I don't know which version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe that is.

4:14 Chris Okay.

4:14 Adam Because there's been about a hundred.

4:18 Adam he's he's UPS guy in Muppets Most Wanted.

4:22 Adam but also he was in he sort of made his name in Shameless.

4:26 Adam he's in his

4:27 Chris I never saw that actually.

4:28 Adam The serials.

4:29 Chris Oh okay. And I that that I meant to watch.

4:30 Adam You never see him?

4:33 Adam yeah, early doors, State of Play.

4:36 Adam

4:37 Chris Okay, so so what we haven't watched?

4:40 Lee No, I don't think we've we've discussed films he's been in because there's that he was in the the It remake, but yeah.

4:46 Chris But he's very memorable and I I mean this, like surely he won an award for this.

4:52 Lee I know.

4:53 Adam Surprisingly enough, no.

4:55 Chris I mean seriously, like this this must have been such a fascinating character characters to to play. Like when you're shown the script as an actor, I wonder how

5:03 Chris like to just be able to change so much.

5:05 Chris And the expression like it's mad.

5:06 Lee Yeah, he's put so much into the tiny mannerisms and every character and to be able to switch from one to the other almost instantly is phenomenal.

5:12 Adam And they do credit in the credits they credit him with all the personalities.

5:17 Lee Okay.

5:18 Chris Okay.

5:19 Adam So he's credited as Dennis, Patricia, Hedwig, the Beast, Kevin Wendell Crumb, Barry, Orwell and Jade because they're the ones that we see in it.

5:27 Adam And

5:28 Chris I wonder what that does to you. I wonder if it did actually affect him in some way.

5:33 Adam I think it's one of those things though, when for for for actors, I think it's one of those one it's like when every sort of long-running TV show, especially like sci-fi and things like that, they always have to do evil doppelgangers because I think it's like it the actors like it because it's like now I get to do something else.

5:52 Chris Yeah.

5:53 Adam But I do suspect that this is this is one of those things where it's like actors are really sort of like would be champing at the bit to give it a whirl and sort of like because it's because it's a challenge, but it's also quite

6:06 Adam because I mean, to be fair, it's quite a showy performance, but there's it's the only way you can do it.

6:12 Chris Yeah.

6:13 Adam You can't it's it's the wrong sort of film to for it to be subtle and I don't know how subtle you could do it.

6:22 Adam If you see if you see what I mean.

6:24 Adam Not to I think it's it's an amazing set of fucking performances.

6:28 Adam

6:29 Adam and the the curious thing is, is that he does, I mean, you you kind you like Hedwig?

6:35 Chris Yeah, yeah.

6:36 Adam Do you know what I mean? but there so some of the you sort of do get the

6:43 Chris Just reminded me of the dubstep dancing bit.

6:47 Adam You develop

6:48 Adam well, Kanye Kanye's Kanye's.

6:52 Chris Yeah, yeah.

6:54 Adam Kanye boy.

6:55 Adam But also, and this is just just as a a reflex back to Mos Eisley Happy Hour. I did notice that Patricia sounds an awful lot like Obi-Wan Kenobi as played by Ewan McGregor.

7:07 Lee Yeah.

7:08 Adam So I can only assume that it's Hollywood Scots playing people.

7:12 Lee Yeah.

7:13 Adam That's the voice.

7:14 Chris That's how it comes out.

7:15 Adam She didn't say hello there, but I was hearing it.

7:17 Adam So.

7:19 Adam But but then I think weirdly enough, I think you also get the the absolute contrast with Anya Anya Taylor-Joy where it's you know, it's a really quiet performance.

7:32 Adam It's a very still.

7:34 Chris She she does that really well.

7:37 Adam But it but it's such a good contrast, but she never gets she's never overwhelmed by acting against someone doing like nine different people, you know.

7:49 Chris Yeah, and it seem to work so well.

7:52 Adam Yeah.

7:53 Adam And actually, I I'd forgotten watching it, I'd forgotten that it's like it's basically a two-hour film.

7:58 Adam

7:59 Adam But it doesn't feel like two hours and if someone said, oh, it's essentially five people in two locations for two hours. That sounds like that's that's got to have dead time and it doesn't.

8:14 Lee It sounds grueling and this doesn't have any any drop beats in it at all. It's just, yeah, it's just all go all the time. Even the even the more subdued scenes, that's when your brain's going, so it doesn't feel like you're bored or you've got any down time in it, like you you're constantly thinking ahead.

8:33 Lee And again, with the characters as well, you know, the the way that he speaks to Karen the doctor, she knows that some of his personalities pretend to be other personalities.

8:45 Chris Yeah, that was so good, all of that side of it, yeah, absolutely.

8:49 Adam Actually, I mean, that's that's that's Betty Buckley, is she's really good in it.

8:58 Adam I didn't realize she's the you know, the nice teacher in Carrie.

9:04 Lee Oh, yeah.

9:05 Adam You know there's the one teacher who's not a cunt to Carrie in Carrie. That's her.

9:09 Lee I said, Oh, wow.

9:11 Adam But yeah,

9:13 Adam and she's also in The Happening, one of another M. Night Shyamalan's.

9:19 Lee Oh, M. Night, totally skipped that.

9:22 Adam fair enough.

9:23 Lee To be fair, I skipped this for ages. I didn't see this for a couple of years after it came out.

9:27 Lee Because everyone was talking about it, and it was one of those films where I thought I knew what was going to happen.

9:32 Lee To the point, I was like, oh, it's just a deranged killer and he's got multiple personalities.

9:37 Lee And it's going to be really like, not quite torture porn, but that type of.

9:42 Lee So I I was like, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't do anything for me and it I didn't watch it for such a long time.

9:49 Chris I can understand that. Like I really liked the fact that they didn't take that potential side of it too far.

9:53 Chris Because early on it's like, yeah, where's this going to go?

9:56 Lee That opening abduction is horrific.

9:58 Chris Yeah.

10:00 Adam And and actually, I mean, I think they again, it's something we've talked about before.

10:07 Adam You are in no doubt about particularly like the flashback stuff.

10:12 Adam You're you know, of Casey's life with her abusive uncle.

10:19 Adam You are not

10:21 Adam you're not in any doubt as to what's going on there.

10:26 Adam But it's not it's presented in a way that gives you enough information and makes it horrible without actually

10:32 Lee Yeah.

10:33 Chris Needing to go there.

10:35 Lee Yeah, just in your face.

10:37 Adam Yeah.

10:37 Adam And I think that similarly there is a level of restraint within the film for what it you know, for what it is, which is basically it's on the on the

10:47 Adam basically it's an exploit it's an exploitation sort of like, you know, oh, mental case kidnaps girls film.

10:58 Adam You know, for want of a sort of better term for it.

11:02 Adam And I think and actually like a lot of films of this, you know, this nature nowadays, it does get a lot of flack from the point of view of presenting mental illness in that way.

11:15 Chris Yeah, I was wondering about that. It's something I mean it's like especially after us talking about the voices.

11:19 Chris I was you know, I was sort of conscious of that watching it.

11:22 Chris I was thinking, like I've loved the the interactions between the therapist and Kevin.

11:30 Chris And but yeah, I was sort of

11:32 Chris you know, as you're going through you're thinking again, how accurate is this?

11:37 Chris You know, I I'm assuming it's dramatized. I'm assuming it is more extreme than often would be portrayed.

11:43 Chris And of course, it certainly is with the Beast.

11:46 Chris And in a way I sort of I wasn't sure if I'd like that element because it's like, I kind of think they have presented a lot that is perhaps somewhat accurate.

11:52 Adam Well, for I mean, from what I gather and obviously, shock shock horror for listeners, we're not mental health experts, but from what I sort of from what I understand of D.I.D.

12:10 Adam like

12:10 Adam disassociative identity disorder, which is the the term now for what used to be called split personality and multiple personality disorder and

12:24 Adam in an absolute fucking sort of horror show of also termed schizophrenia, even though it's a completely different condition whatsoever.

12:33 Chris Different.

12:33 Adam But somehow that got linked up that schizoid meant split personality or dual personality or something like that.

12:39 Adam

12:40 Adam but from I mean, from sort of like reading about it, there is a lot of it seems to be that for as many people who are advocating for it as an existence, there are also those that don't feel it's an actual condition.

12:58 Adam And actually, there's a lot of there seems to be a lot of people who are referring to it essentially they're saying a bit like oh, what's it called, a bit like repressed memory syndrome.

13:12 Adam They say a lot of people are saying it's like iatrogenic, like it's a a doctor.

13:16 Adam It's like it's produced by

13:20 Chris creating false memories.

13:21 Adam Yeah, it's basically the doctor sort of imposing the diagnosis who then exhibits the behaviors.

13:25 Adam

13:26 Adam but I mean, regardless of whether that is the whether it's something that doctors are forcing onto patients or whether it's actually does happen.

13:31 Chris the phenomenon can still happen.

13:35 Adam If you're suffering from it, it's

13:37 Chris Yeah, you're still suffering from it.

13:39 Adam Yeah, it's it's not a

13:41 Adam And there does seem to be at least anecdotal evidence of as they describe in the film like physiological changes.

13:50 Chris Yeah, well that yeah, that is an interesting aspect to it.

13:53 Adam But apparently, the inspiration for it, M. Night Shyamalan's inspiration was,

14:03 Adam I don't know if you're aware of it, there's a guy there was a case, it was a guy called Billy Milligan.

14:09 Adam And he was basically, I I've jotted down some bits on him.

14:14 Adam and it was kind of like a fate, it was like the first famous case of D.I.D.

14:20 Adam he was a convicted armed robber and rapist in Ohio.

14:24 Adam And he was arrested in 1977 as the campus rapist after he committed a series of kidnapping and rapes of female students attending Ohio State University while he was on parole.

14:38 Adam So he'd already been he'd already been arrested for armed robbery and rape and stuff.

14:45 Adam and then while they were preparing his defense case, he was diagnosed essentially he was diagnosed with D.I.D.

14:54 Adam And that so he was so he had a plea of not guilty due to reason of insanity.

15:00 Adam And he and Billy himself was maintaining that the crimes had been committed by his alters.

15:05 Adam

15:05 Adam So he was not guilty, it was other personalities that had committed those crimes.

15:09 Adam and actually the defense worked.

15:12 Chris Yeah, it's funny isn't it because that

15:14 Chris I don't know about you, it makes you feel like that seems like an excuse somehow, doesn't it?

15:18 Lee It seems like the system has failed, because why all the other.

15:21 Chris Wow.

15:21 Lee That person shouldn't be out in public.

15:23 Chris Yeah, well there is that.

15:24 Adam Well, I mean, he was found not guilty, but he was committed to the mental health system.

15:29 Lee Okay.

15:29 Adam So he wasn't out, you know.

15:32 Adam But it was committed to mental health facilities until such time as he regained sanity as it was in 1977.

15:40 Adam he had initially they identified 10 personalities, that expanded to 24, as he was going through the sort of hospital.

15:48 Adam Like the psychiatric system.

15:52 Adam and again it was because he allegedly had a shockingly abusive childhood.

15:58 Adam Yeah.

15:58 Adam and which seems to be in cases of D.I.D. that does seem to be very much the

16:05 Chris The factor that the factor.

16:07 Adam That plays in is basically

16:11 Chris I mean you can imagine that would mess your brain.

16:12 Adam Oh, yeah.

16:12 Adam And

16:12 Adam it's

16:13 Adam and it's basically it's as it's it's a protection, it's a safety gap if you you generate something so that you are not

16:20 Adam that is not being experienced by you, the other step in the way to take that on your behalf almost.

16:26 Adam

16:27 Adam but so then Daniel Keys, who wrote the science fiction novel Flowers for Algernon, published a book in 1980 called The Minds of Billy Milligan, which is kind of also what brought the case to the public.

16:46 Adam But that meant that he became what can only be described as a celebrity patient.

16:52 Adam Yeah.

16:57 Adam So he got a lot more privileges than a lot of people.

17:01 Adam He got a lot more leeway than a lot of patients who were in there.

17:04 Adam And at one point, I believe they moved him to a different hospital because he was probably responsible for some sexual assaults that had taken place offsite.

17:12 Adam Near to the hospital.

17:16 Adam So they kind of I think they were like, right, we'll we'll shift him along, it's someone else's problem, we can't prove anything, but also we don't want to highlight the fact that this guy who should be

17:25 Adam under lock and key, regardless of whether it's within the mental institution, is actually having a lot.

17:34 Adam I mean, at one point apparently he got arrested because the passenger of his car fired a shotgun at someone.

17:39 Adam And it's like, he's driving the fucking car with passengers.

17:41 Adam What the fuck?

17:42 Adam You know, this is not.

17:43 Lee gun.

17:44 Adam Yeah, this doesn't feel so, you know.

17:47 Adam and then in 1986, he escaped and lived under the name Christopher Carr.

17:53 Adam And probably murdered his roommate of the time.

17:57 Adam So I mean, it seems like a lot of and basically he was only recaptured after authorities were investigating this guy's disappearance.

18:05 Adam And found Billy Milligan, or as he was calling himself Christopher Carr, had sold this guy's car and was cashing his war checks and pension and disability allowance and stuff like that.

18:13 Adam And that's what got him brought back in.

18:16 Adam And then in 1988, he was diagnosed as in inverted commas solid.

18:21 Adam And was discharged.

18:23 Adam And then, oh, lovely, someone's written flaps and an erect cock on the bottom of my notes here.

18:28 Adam I can only assume that that's my good lady wife.

18:31 Lee Oh, scientific advisor.

18:32 Adam and then he

18:34 Lee Yeah, my scientific advisor's drawing a cock and flaps down here, that's nice.

18:38 Lee They seem to be emanating from the crown.

18:40 Lee The guy's got talent.

18:40 Adam and then he lived with his sister and was trying to get a film made of his life on the basis of the book.

18:49 Adam eventually died in

18:50 Adam 2014.

18:53 Adam so,

18:55 Adam but that was the case that kind of inspired like the thing.

18:55 Chris Yeah.

19:00 Adam And and it was one of those things where I believe there's actually there's a series called The Crowded Room that's I think it's on Apple or something like that, which I think is the adaption of the case.

19:09 Adam Like so it's

19:10 Adam so it's still quite a sort of big sort of thing you know, like it was but that was like the famous thing that brought it to the public's awareness.

19:19 Adam but it's

19:22 Adam as I say, I mean, clearly for sufferers of it, and I can you know, you understand, you don't from the point of point of view of mental health practitioners, you know,

19:34 Adam making someone the villain and claiming that it's because of mental health issues.

19:41 Adam You know, it's a dodgy area.

19:44 Adam But equally, you know, I think within the this film is looking at something slightly different, this film is actually interested in the condition.

19:53 Adam And the way, and okay.

19:55 Adam you know, it's done, but it's for me, it feels a bit like psycho.

20:04 Adam It's like, you know, it's a thriller.

20:06 Adam But it's it's not necessarily saying that, you know, there's an army of D.I.D. sufferers out there who are kidnapping girls and sacrifice them to one of their alters.

20:19 Adam it's but, you know, but it is and it is a fascinating

20:24 Adam subject morbidly fascinating or not, you know, you know, whether it's whether it's casual interest or actually you're taking an interest.

20:32 Adam You know, it's still something that is quite a fascinating and resonant thing and within the wider context, it really is quite a important part of the trilogy.

20:42 Chris Yeah, yeah, so.

20:44 Adam But as as a stand alone film, I think it is a really good thriller.

20:49 Lee Oh, yeah.

20:50 Chris So is it because you don't so you only get a hint that there's something else at the end?

20:56 Lee Yeah, so the Unbreakable came out first, which is the film with Bruce Willis.

20:56 Chris The whole rest of the film could be absolutely stand alone.

21:00 Lee Where they first introduce him, again, he he's a kind of regular guy.

21:05 Lee He survives a train crash that he shouldn't have survived.

21:08 Lee That nobody else survived.

21:10 Chris Okay.

21:10 Lee And then he gets it in his head that he's some kind of superhero.

21:15 Lee Well, he starts.

21:16 Lee testing himself.

21:17 Adam He gets someone contacts him who is a comic book fan and it's Samuel L. Jackson's character and he basically is someone, he's got brittle bone disease.

21:32 Chris Okay.

21:32 Adam And he's of the opinion that if he exists, there's some there's probably someone who's at the opposite end of the spectrum of someone who is unbreakable.

21:40 Chris Yeah, okay.

21:41 Adam So he but he sort of filters it through how comic books are done and so in a weird way Unbreakable is like an origin story for Bruce Willis's character as he discovers that he is a superhero, essentially.

21:55 Chris

21:56 Adam and it's not and it's not just that he is tough, it's like they work out that he's never been ill and he's never you know, and and actually they also realize because he's the character in it is a security guard.

22:08 Adam Yeah.

22:09 Adam And he they sort of realize that he has essentially a sixth sense.

22:14 Chris Oh, that yeah.

22:15 Adam Yeah.

22:16 Chris No, that just reminded me, so that is actually the other M. Night film, isn't it? Six sense?

22:19 Adam Yes, yeah.

22:21 Adam So so he did basically M. Night did

22:25 Adam I think he did like two romantic comedies and then did The Sixth Sense.

22:30 Adam Yeah. And then Unbreakable came out.

22:33 Adam Now the weird thing is, is Unbreakable is essentially a superhero movie, but it was it came out in 2000.

22:42 Adam And at the time, the studio were like, no, we're going to market this as a supernatural thriller.

22:48 Adam Because superhero movies are shit and no one watches them.

22:49 Chris No.

22:50 Adam Because studios really can predict things so well.

22:55 Chris Why is it not? So when when did the superhero thing kick off? It was like a year after that.

23:00 Adam Bearing in mind, it's Warner Vesta, so that's fucking Disney.

23:04 Adam So it's Disney who are like, nah, superhero movies aren't worth jack shit.

23:08 Lee It's like, well, that explains why you paid through the nose for fucking Marvel then, didn't it, mate?

23:13 Adam But

23:13 Lee Yeah, it doesn't doesn't.

23:15 Adam it's so but yeah, other time, but it doesn't feel like a superhero movie to be fair, like it's very it is like a guy who's discovering that he's got these kind of abilities.

23:29 Lee But as you say, not like in a Spider-Man type, oh my God, look at that type, like it's very grounded and realistic, which is why I like it so much.

23:37 Adam It's very watchman.

23:40 Adam It's that thing like Watchman is of what happens if there's superheroes in the world, but this is much more on the mundane level of what if you discover you're a superhero?

23:51 Adam And what does that mean because the world doesn't have superheroes, you know what I mean?

23:55 Adam It's like Watchman's the extrapolation of where would you be in the 80s if the superheroes of the 30s etc had been around and built up this whole situation.

24:06 Adam Whereas Unbreakable is basically, oh, it's the year 2000 and by the way, you might be a superhero.

24:13 Chris Yeah.

24:14 Adam And it's very sort of domestic, it's very low-key.

24:20 Adam and the weird thing was is because I I wanted to see Split and then the internet obviously was not going to let that go that this turned out to be a a 16 year later stealth sequel to Unbreakable.

24:31 Chris

24:31 Adam By the fact that Bruce Willis's character David Dunn turns up at the end of it.

24:37 Chris Yeah.

24:38 Adam And so it was so

24:42 Adam when I wanted to see Glass because I really wanted to see sorry, when I wanted to see Split.

24:49 Adam I then watched Unbreakable because Unbreakable had been a film that was on my radar and then I just forgot about it because it was like, like I said, I didn't see The Sixth Sense because I worked out the twist.

25:00 Adam And then when I

25:03 Chris But when you said that the other day, I was thinking, is it worth watching again? Like I'm so tempted to watch it.

25:07 Chris Because I I've only seen it once.

25:09 Chris It does sort of seem like totally not worth it.

25:15 Adam I don't know.

25:15 Adam I've never had the motivation.

25:17 Adam But but then curiously enough with

25:20 Adam with Unbreakable when I read about I remember reading reviews of it at the time and actually it didn't do as well because it wasn't another Sixth Sense.

25:27 Adam It was something different.

25:30 Adam because how dare people do that.

25:33 Adam You know.

25:33 Adam Because you'd rather

25:34 Adam because basically what I'd rather is someone took a shit in my hands and then did it three times a day for the rest of my fucking life.

25:41 Adam And it's exactly the same with the same bit of sweetcorn in there, you know.

25:44 Adam Right, but anyway, that's me having a rant.

25:47 Adam But I think that so I wanted to what I thought, oh, I'll definitely check out Unbreakable when I get the chance.

25:53 Adam Hadn't.

25:54 Adam And then I was like, well, I don't want to go into Split because I didn't know quite how.

25:58 Adam And literally, it's that sort of

26:01 Adam the film ends, the words Split comes up and then you get that little sequence.

26:08 Lee Yeah.

26:08 Lee It's not post-credits or anything.

26:10 Lee It's right there.

26:12 Adam It's right there, but it's but also that's literally the connection from the rest of the film you don't sort of there's not like

26:18 Adam actually.

26:19 Adam There is one thing.

26:21 Adam M. Night Shyamalan is in Split.

26:30 Adam He's the guy who who's who's going through the comic books.

26:33 Chris Yeah.

26:34 Adam Yeah.

26:36 Adam He's got the food from it.

26:37 Adam But here's the best bit.

26:40 Adam He does turn up in Glass and he's in Unbreakable.

26:43 Adam And in Unbreakable, he plays a guy that Bruce Willis nearly busts at the football stadium.

26:48 Adam Where he works security as a drug as a drug dealer.

26:52 Lee Oh, which he then mentions in Glass.

26:54 Adam He mentions it in Glass that he is, oh, yeah, I, I remember you, yeah, I turned over a new leaf, I was having a bad.

27:02 Adam And it's basically that he nearly got busted and so he

27:07 Adam decided to get out of the game and then he ends up as the security guard at Dr. Fletcher's apartment building.

27:13 Adam And yeah.

27:15 Adam So so technically there are there are some links.

27:19 Adam But

27:21 Adam and

27:23 Adam and in actual fact, as I say, Unbreakable, there's bits where Bruce Willis works out that as he if he comes into physical contact with people, he can sometimes tell if they've committed a criminal act, or they're going to commit a criminal act, or whatever like that.

27:36 Adam And at one point, there's a sequence where he just touches loads of people and he gets loads of flashes of what evil shit people have done.

27:43 Adam One of them is a woman who is knocking her kid about.

27:48 Adam

27:49 Chris Right, seems plausible.

27:50 Adam Fan theory has gone that it's meant to be.

27:52 Lee Yeah.

27:52 Adam Kevin's mum.

27:54 Chris Yeah.

27:55 Lee Oh.

27:56 Adam But I mean, but there's there's nothing to I don't think it's the same actress, I don't think it's there's anything to suggest that other than it sort of would fit in.

28:03 Adam And there are other linking sort of areas and stuff like that.

28:06 Chris Yeah.

28:08 Adam but I think that.

28:11 Lee I just

28:12 Lee I just I yeah, I I know you'd mentioned earlier about the fact that it's so so few actors in this film.

28:19 Lee I was the same as you, Chris, like anything that Anya Taylor-Joy's in is always because I know she's always despite her age and the fact she hasn't really been doing stuff for that long.

28:29 Lee I say that, I'm an old man, she probably has been for a decade now and it feels like she's been around for ages.

28:34 Chris Well, but it's crazy how young she is in The Witch, now.

28:36 Lee So.

28:37 Lee Yeah, always give such a stellar performance.

28:40 Lee Like, yeah, and I thought she was so well cast in this.

28:43 Chris They see it.

28:44 Chris I think she's like the the type of performance she does just seems to fit the films perfectly.

28:48 Chris She does seem to get cast, you know, just right.

28:50 Adam Well, also the really good thing is she's playing have you heard that they're doing a a prequel to Mad Max Thunder Road?

28:58 Lee

28:59 Adam And it's

29:00 Lee Oh.

29:00 Adam the story of Furiosa, like Charlie's

29:03 Adam theron's character and Anya Taylor-Joy is playing Furiosa.

29:04 Lee

29:05 Lee That is amazing. I can't wait for that.

29:09 Adam But also, I think that what I love as well is you've got that contrast in this of survival from childhood trauma.

29:16 Adam Yeah.

29:17 Adam Trauma.

29:19 Adam Where Casey has gone a different route.

29:23 Adam Yeah.

29:24 Adam And but Casey knows how to survive the situation.

29:30 Adam Yeah.

29:31 Adam And actually at first you're kind of like not on you're not with her.

29:36 Adam Because the other girls are like, well, if we hit him with a chair or whatever like that.

29:39 Chris Yeah.

29:40 Adam Whereas she's got like, look, I've been here and we are,

29:46 Adam you know, it doesn't it's not going to go as you think it's going to go.

29:52 Adam I think she actually says that at one point.

29:54 Lee Yeah, she does.

29:55 Lee And and that's that's what got me was so so the first 20 minutes of the film.

30:01 Lee I was convinced that she'd had an experience with this guy before and he'd targeted her because she seemed so knowing.

30:06 Lee Yeah, so then seeing that development of how actually it's not, she just she's been in horrible situations.

30:12 Lee She knows what to do.

30:13 Lee Yeah.

30:14 Lee Especially that point when he when he first tries to take that girl out and she says just pee on yourself.

30:19 Adam Yes.

30:20 Lee And I was like, oh, she obviously knows something.

30:23 Lee It's like, oh, no, she she does in the wider sense of the thing, but she doesn't she doesn't know him specifically. yeah, so that's again that's from.

30:34 Lee Despite the fact I've seen it, it's still again.

30:38 Adam That also, I think it's very interesting that there's the bit when there's the thing from when she's a kid, when she pulls a gun on her uncle.

30:48 Adam Yeah.

30:49 Adam And obviously, there's a part of you that's like, yeah, blow that fucking non's head off.

30:55 Adam Yeah.

30:56 Adam But it's kind of like where does leave a little kid.

31:00 Lee Yeah.

31:01 Lee I exactly.

31:01 Adam in terms of

31:03 Lee I had exactly the same thought. I was like, oh, she should have just blasted him and it was like,

31:08 Chris That is, that is the first thought.

31:10 Chris Yeah.

31:11 Lee But then she then she.

31:12 Chris But then you realize.

31:13 Lee Yeah, because then she loses her dad, so if he wasn't there, despite the fact he's abusive, she would have just ended up in the system and you're like.

31:19 Adam She probably end up in the system if she had killed him anyway because it would have been like, you know, that's the thing.

31:21 Adam She would not have been with her dad, you know.

31:24 Adam Yeah.

31:25 Adam But also, it's interesting that she doesn't fucking hesitate to shoot Kevin.

31:32 Lee Yeah.

31:34 Adam Because it's like you're in that position and it's like, right, okay, no, I've got to take advantage of this opportunity.

31:40 Chris This is what I gotta do.

31:42 Adam As it turns out, you can't kill the Beast.

31:46 Chris Can't kill it.

31:46 Adam Yeah.

31:47 Adam Because the Beast has because the Beast is fucking super strong.

31:52 Lee Yeah.

31:52 Adam Yeah.

31:53 Adam Well, actually, because because the thing is it's meant to be that he's like an amalgam of all the creatures in the zoo.

32:03 Adam And

32:04 Adam I didn't because I don't know there's the term for like elephants and rhinos where it's that very thick skin.

32:13 Adam And

32:13 Adam I didn't realize that that's actually it it translates to strong wall.

32:18 Adam That's where the origin of that word comes from.

32:19 Adam But again, he develops that sort of so he's he's essentially armored.

32:24 Chris Yeah.

32:25 Lee And because his physical changes. I know we've said about James McAvoy and how absolutely astonishing his performance is, but even his like his physical appearance.

32:33 Lee Yeah, when he goes from, you know, his his other characters basically to being.

32:39 Lee They must have literally just given him a load of weights and he just got a massive pump on and then they just.

32:44 Lee Because like he's he looks massive, but then when you see him as the other characters, he doesn't and I don't think it's CGI, I think they've literally just, I'm assuming they shot them so that the the shots where he's playing Patricia and stuff are earlier on.

32:54 Lee And then they probably got him to bulk up as the film's gone.

33:02 Adam Because it must it must be said that by the time for I think for Glass, he's really gone for it.

33:09 Adam Because he's going to be portraying the

33:10 Adam again, spoiler, but he he plays the Beast more.

33:13 Adam Okay.

33:13 Adam in in Glass, that that personality comes out more.

33:19 Adam So I think that for that he has really bulked up and it's noticeable that he is a lot heavier set than he is in this.

33:26 Adam

33:26 Adam but I think that that is just because it's like, no, you you've got to be able to sort of especially because it's like broad daylight and stuff like that.

33:33 Adam There's nothing that can be suggested or whatever like that.

33:37 Adam You're either a big bastard or you're not.

33:37 Adam And it's and interestingly enough, this was something one thing that I did see about, you know, like what might have been or whatever like that with it.

33:44 Adam is Joaquin Phoenix was offered the part and as they could it they couldn't reach a contractual agreement.

33:50 Adam Which is I assume means he was asking for too much money.

33:52 Lee Yeah.

33:54 Adam But I'll be honest, Joaquin Phoenix, I can see it from the point of view of he's a fucking amazing actor and obviously, he's done his own villain origin story now.

34:01 Adam Because he's done Joker.

34:04 Adam And, you know, I think he would be able to do, but I I'll be honest, I don't know that he is going to look that imposing.

34:09 Lee No.

34:11 Adam Because he is not I don't think he's got the frame to build on, if you see what I mean.

34:15 Adam That he would look like that.

34:17 Lee Again, none of the apart from the Beast, obviously, none of the personalities turn into kind of caricatures.

34:23 Lee He just gets that balance right, so like Patricia isn't kind of over the top.

34:28 Lee And like he keeps it fairly grounded, yeah, and I think someone like Joaquin Phoenix, fantastic as he is.

34:33 Lee I think I might have gone more over the top with yeah, exactly.

34:38 Lee And then it loses all of its not believability.

34:43 Chris But there is something about it.

34:44 Chris Being feeling realistic.

34:45 Chris To some degree.

34:47 Lee Yeah.

34:47 Adam And actually, I mean, originally, Kevin Wendell Crumb was in was going to be in Unbreakable.

34:52 Adam

34:54 Lee Yeah, I agree with that. I think he made the right call, making them two completely different movies. Yeah.

35:01 Lee And just dropping that little 10 seconds at the end that just makes you go, oh, shit, they exist in the same universe.

35:06 Adam I'll tell you what.

35:07 Adam That is the one thing I would have loved I'd love to know how that felt.

35:11 Adam For people who, you know, have sort of people fans of Unbreakable films of, because this was kind of like his comeback film, wasn't it?

35:19 Lee Yeah.

35:20 Adam M. Night Shyamalan, this was the one where everyone was like, oh, no, he's done this is a a really effective thriller and it's, you know, it's not and then kind of there is a twist ending.

35:31 Adam But the twist ending is oh, by the way, this is a sequel to a film that you possibly didn't watch 16 years ago.

35:39 Lee Yeah, because I'd seen Unbreakable a few times and I didn't realize that that scene was in there. So when I saw it the first time, I was one of those lucky people who was like,

35:50 Lee Because he got to the end and I was like, oh, man, there was no twist and then they did that. And I was like, yep, no, got me, totally got me.

35:56 Adam That's how it twist.

35:57 Adam And and that is playing the long fucking game as well.

36:00 Lee Yeah.

36:00 Adam Yeah.

36:01 Adam So.

36:03 Adam But but no, I mean, I think that it I enjoy it as part of its whole thing.

36:10 Adam But as as a stand alone film, I think it fucking works as well.

36:15 Lee Yeah.

36:16 Adam Which is, yeah.

36:19 Lee Excellent. Right.

36:21 Lee So that definite recommend from all of us.

36:23 Lee I I'd say the whole trilogy is a recommend to be honest.

36:26 Lee Yes, this is my favorite of them, but yeah, I I I think I need to possibly watch them all again in a in a proper order at some point as a bit of a marathon, so.

36:37 Adam I'll definitely watch it.

36:37 Adam Motivated me to finish it off and watch Glass finally and I'm I'm pleased I did.

36:42 Chris And I want to watch some more some other M. Night Shya Malan.

36:47 Lee Yes.

36:48 Chris Now what was it it was Kevin in the woods?

36:49 Chris Shyamalan.

36:51 Adam Shyamalan, yeah.

36:52 Chris was it not Kevin in the woods?

36:54 Lee No, not Kevin in the woods.

36:55 Lee you're thinking of.

36:56 Chris The one that you mentioned.

36:56 Lee Oh, horror film that was awful.

36:57 Adam The visit.

36:58 Lee The one I don't want to give it away.

37:00 Chris Knock at the cabin.

37:01 Lee Oh, God, yes!

37:01 Lee That's the one.

37:02 Lee I wasn't even thinking of that.

37:03 Lee Yeah.

37:04 Adam But you also got signs, The Village, Lady in the Water, The Happening, The Visit.

37:09 Adam Old.

37:10 Lee Three of those are good films, I think.

37:12 Chris Yeah, that's it. You said it sort of 50/50.

37:14 Lee It is, but again, when he gets it right, he really gets it right.

37:17 Lee He gets it so right.

37:20 Lee You're like, I might have watched two.

37:22 Lee I might have watched.

37:22 Chris But that's to be fair, like you gotta take risks, you gotta try things.

37:24 Chris It doesn't always work, yeah.

37:26 Lee Yeah, no, 100%. I would rather someone like did this and did loads of stuff that didn't work and then when they get it, they get it right.

37:31 Lee Rather than just playing it safe all the time.

37:31 Chris Try and do exactly the same.

37:34 Lee And like Adam said, yeah.

37:35 Lee You just end up with this.

37:35 Adam Yeah.

37:36 Adam You end up with you end up with a Sixth Sense part seven.

37:38 Lee Yeah.

37:39 Adam At which point no one gives a fuck.

37:39 Lee Yeah.

37:42 Lee Excellent. Right. Thanks very much for listening everybody.

37:45 Lee go and check out those movies. We're doing what we've been watching for our next episode, so

37:51 Lee I I've been I've been a busy little boy and we're still got two weeks to go, so

37:57 Lee Yeah, plenty to look forward to.

37:59 Lee Thanks very much for listening.

38:00 Lee Good night.

38:01 Chris Good night.

38:02 Adam Good night.