Hound of the Baskervilles

0:24 Lee Good evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.

0:28 Chris Hi, I'm Chris.

0:29 Adam Hi, I'm Adam.

0:30 Jennifer I'm Jennifer.

0:31 Lee Happy New Year!

0:32 Adam Jennifer's back.

0:33 Chris Happy New Year!

0:34 Jennifer Yay!

0:34 Lee Yay.

0:37 Lee Yeah, somehow we had the holidays and Jennifer still isn't sick of the sight of me enough to be desperate to get an hour and a half away from you.

0:43 Jennifer No, no, I totally am, but I really like Sherlock Holmes.

0:45 Chris This this is, yeah.

0:46 Adam That was the trade off, yeah.

0:48 Chris Yeah.

0:51 Lee

0:52 Chris Do do you like this Sherlock Holmes though? That's the question.

0:55 Jennifer Well, we'll have to wait for that, won't we?

0:57 Chris Ooh.

0:58 Adam Indeed.

0:59 Lee so just to let you all know, what we've decided to do as we've had the month off over Christmas and New Year and we've got through a lot. Adam had the excellent idea of rather than us dashing through all the stuff that we've watched and trying to condense it and not giving it the time it's it's due really. we're going to do a bonus episode which will either have dropped before or after this episode or at the same time, I mean, who knows.

2:06 Lee

2:08 Lee So we're going to do that instead. So we're not going to have our usual what we've been watching, and also Sherlock Holmes I think deserves a lot of time because of although we want to stick to one version this evening, we do want to cover it a bit more of an overall really.

2:27 Lee So and also thank you to Claire for this fantastic idea of suggesting this, it was it Claire who suggested this?

2:34 Lee Or was it Adam?

2:35 Adam I think it was me actually because Claire looks dazed and confused by the whole situation.

2:41 Lee Oh, sorry.

2:41 Lee In that case I see whenever Adam comes up with great idea, I always give Claire the credit.

2:45 Chris Yeah.

2:46 Adam Yeah.

2:47 Chris That's because she comes up with so many great ideas.

2:50 Jennifer Half the time.

2:50 Adam 90% of the time it is Claire's idea.

2:56 Lee yes, so we're covering The Hound of the Baskervilles this evening.

3:00 Lee but obviously, as we say, Sherlock Holmes in general.

3:04 Lee this I think is one of the more horror stories from Sherlock Holmes.

3:10 Lee But I know that myself and Jennifer and Adam are massive fans of Sherlock Holmes, in all of its adaptations really.

3:18 Lee

3:18 Lee Chris, do you use Sherlock Holmes something that you've delved into a lot or particularly?

3:23 Chris I I've seen one or two episodes when I was fairly young. I the one that sticks out to me which is you know probably not as applicable is young Sherlock Holmes, which I seem to remember being quite odd and entertaining but I don't know how much like how close is it to actual Sherlock Holmes?

3:37 Adam It certainly certainly not based on Conan Doyle.

3:41 Chris No, yeah, okay.

3:43 Adam It's it's funny you mention that though because the obviously we're doing this evening we're sort of concentrating on the Hammer edition. I got the Blu-ray, the Arrow Blu-ray of it. And one of the things on there is what's what's called 'The Many Faces of Sherlock Holmes' and it's narrated by Christopher Lee, but I think looking at it, it looks like it is a part of the sort of advertising package for Young Sherlock Holmes.

4:04 Chris Oh, right.

4:05 Adam Because there's a big load of young Sherlock Holmes clips at the start before he goes off and into And interestingly enough, I think he's just talking film versions.

4:15 Chris

4:17 Adam and also he he is dressed like the most obvious undercover policeman you've ever seen. He's like sort of blue blue blue blazer and a tweed hat and he's mustache. He he actually looks exactly as he does in Death Line.

4:33 Chris Wow.

4:34 Adam Almost you know, I mean in Death Line it's a bowler hat, but pretty much it's the same it's that same look of it's like, you come here to arrest me, haven't you? That is the only vibe you're giving off here.

4:49 Lee Oh, before we get into it again.

4:50 Lee Obviously, there will be spoilers and swearing just to let everybody know.

4:55 Lee I'm sure everybody knows the story of The Hound of the Baskervilles, but nevertheless, it's always worth pointing out and there will be swears possibly.

5:05 Lee Although I feel wrong doing it because this feels like a cultured episode.

5:10 Lee So I mean,

5:11 Jennifer Yeah, makes sense.

5:12 Chris Although, although I was kind of surprised that there's a little bit of swearing in it.

5:17 Adam Is there?

5:18 Adam What bit?

5:18 Chris Well, well, it's on the more mild end, the you know, the female dog is mentioned.

5:26 Jennifer Oh!

5:26 Adam All right, okay.

5:27 Lee Oh, yes, yes.

5:28 Chris I just was a bit to be honest, the whole of the start was a I was a little bit thrown, it was like, oh, okay, I didn't quite see this orgiastic party.

5:34 Adam Yeah.

5:35 Chris happening.

5:36 Chris It was like, oh, yeah, okay, it's

5:38 Chris pretty forlorn.

5:39 Adam That's definitely I think it's unique in that opening.

5:43 Adam Because obviously in the in the usual version of the story.

5:48 Adam Starts with Holmes and Watson, Dr. Mortimer turns up and then reads them that story.

5:53 Chris Right.

5:53 Adam Whereas Hammer have obviously thought, what do we What do we do best?

5:57 Chris Gon.

5:58 Adam Like horror melodrama in period costume.

6:01 Chris Yeah. Let's

6:02 Adam So let's go for that.

6:03 Chris Let's go for it.

6:04 Adam It's like sort of cold open it almost which is a very unusual way to do it, you know.

6:12 Adam

6:13 Adam And it's even more unusual because then you cut back and the narrator is not like a main character technically.

6:21 Adam If well, not he's one of the participants, but he's not Holmes or Watson.

6:26 Adam And you go into a Sherlock Holmes movie assuming that you would be like the stories you'd be doing it from Watson's perspective or from Holmes's perspective or whatever.

6:33 Adam And so yeah, it's just a weird, very odd opening, but also pretty fucking spectacular. It's very Hammer, isn't it? With those mat paintings in the background and like the very stark colors as well, you know, the.

6:43 Lee Yeah.

6:44 Lee That very sort of washed out matt paintings with the very red credits over the top and that fantastic font.

6:50 Chris Yeah.

6:51 Adam Yes, yes, he's a lovely lovely font.

6:54 Adam lovely font work from the Hammer boys there.

7:01 Adam And actually I mean that opening sequence, I mean, basically it's the Bullingdon Club, isn't it?

7:06 Chris Oh, that yeah, that absolutely it was reminded me of societal a little bit. I was like, this going to go it's not going to go that far, but it's

7:11 Adam It's pretty far.

7:12 Chris What

7:12 Adam enough enough that his coed up mates aren't that's That's that's all it reminded me of is suits in a pub.

7:19 Chris Yeah.

7:21 Adam But

7:22 Adam Yeah, even even his co-up mates are a bit, you can't you can't just like chase a human being down with a horse, can you?

7:27 Adam You know that's much.

7:28 Lee Because Jennifer, I think it's all right. It's all right to bring a down and abuse her in a game, but setting a dog after her.

7:34 Chris Oh.

7:34 Lee Oh, all of a sudden.

7:34 Chris That's stepped over a line there.

7:37 Adam Yeah, certainly everyone's a fucking vicar.

7:40 Adam Having also nearly set fire to her dad.

7:42 Chris Yeah, he doesn't look great after it.

7:47 Lee He looks pretty dead.

7:48 Chris Is is he is he dead?

7:50 Adam I'm kind of assuming, I know that this I'm not sure if the Arrow version, I should I should have checked but I just forgot to, but I'm not sure if the Arrow version is any different, but the this is one of the few Hammer films that's cut in England still. and I think there's more of him in the fire. I think they basically put him in the fire and then drag him out.

8:04 Chris Oh, god.

8:05 Adam So it's not just holding him over.

8:06 Adam Although technically, he's been in the moat, so, you know, he should be fine, shouldn't he?

8:10 Lee He's dead.

8:11 Adam If if anything they're drying him off, you know, it's a kindness.

8:15 Adam

8:16 Adam Yeah, and I think I think the other thing is there's like maybe more shots of the knife with blood on it.

8:23 Chris

8:23 Adam So it's only this opening bit that has bits that are sort of a bit.

8:26 Chris I was going to mention that later. I quite liked Peter Cushing or Sherlock Holmes's little flourish with the knife, the dagger later on when he.

8:31 Adam Oh, yeah.

8:32 Lee Yeah.

8:33 Jennifer And he's for the death.

8:34 Lee Yeah.

8:34 Chris Yeah.

8:35 Lee one more thing, and this.

8:38 Chris Yeah.

8:40 Adam Pow.

8:41 Lee Oh.

8:43 Adam It's not too it's not it's not too far off Elvis in what they're like in Walk Hard.

8:49 Lee Yeah.

8:49 Adam Look at that.

8:52 Adam Because I mean, that's in a weird way, because obviously, Peter Cushing was a real like Sherlock Holmes nut.

9:00 Chris Okay.

9:01 Adam He was a proper aficionado of the books before it so

9:07 Adam I mean, interestingly enough, part of his costume is Peter Cushing's own stuff that he brought from home. So I get the impression he was an early Sherlock Holmes cosplayer.

9:26 Jennifer Oh.

9:27 Chris Oh, that's impressive.

9:28 Adam I think he just dressed up as Sherlock Holmes at home.

9:31 Adam I think he just was that much of a fan.

9:33 Lee That tweet.

9:34 Adam And I mean he does he does kind of resemble.

9:36 Chris

9:37 Adam He resembles the Paget like the classic Sydney Paget illustrations do really resemble Peter Cushing as well, and it's that same sort of very gump face and everything else like that.

9:48 Adam

9:50 Chris But I did not having seen a lot, I did think he was great in it.

9:53 Chris I mean, what doesn't he do great, but you know.

9:55 Adam Oh, no.

9:56 Adam I but I think I think it's that weird thing where you can tell because of how much of a fan he is, how much he's fucking enjoying it.

10:05 Adam Because he's really going for it, you know.

10:09 Adam

10:10 Adam But yeah, so and also he changed bits of the dialogue and actually brought them back to the original book.

10:18 Adam So there's lines in there there's actually lines in there from other Sherlock Holmes stories, it's not purely like the bit where he talks about his rates of pay that I think's from that's from a different Sherlock Holmes story and stuff.

10:27 Adam And even nailing his letters to the fireplace with the knife.

10:33 Lee Yeah.

10:34 Adam Which is in the books.

10:35 Adam And again, that was something that Peter Cushing said, well, can I do that? Can I will do that? So I've got my letters.

10:40 Adam Yeah, so he really like was properly sort of like, no, let's make this the most Sherlock Holmes, most accurate and doing it properly.

10:50 Jennifer So Hammer, do we know why?

10:55 Adam Basically, this was the first sort of not not flop, but it was the first of that run of Hammer that didn't do well at the box office.

11:04 Adam I think mostly because it's not, a monster.

11:10 Chris Yeah, no, no, I was going to say, right, because it does seem a little bit odd to me for them to choose this because this isn't ultimately supernatural and I'm assuming the other Sherlock Holmes aren't either, even though they probably build up the whole.

11:21 Adam You know.

11:22 Adam There's

11:23 Adam I mean, the whole the whole thing with and it's quite a weird thing with Arthur Conan Doyle as he turned out.

11:30 Chris No, I've heard well, I've heard a bit about him.

11:32 Chris Not a huge amount.

11:33 Adam His Sherlock.

11:33 Chris But yeah.

11:34 Adam Well, I mean, he well, I mean, he he was he was Scottish, he studied medicine at Edinburgh and he was under a doctor called Bell who he basically took Sherlock Holmes from. He exhibited a lot of his personality and he was basically a forensic pathologist. He was solving crimes through careful observation of.

11:49 Chris Did he say elementary?

11:50 Adam that I could not answer.

11:52 Adam I mean, Holmes doesn't.

11:54 Lee They say.

11:54 Chris He says it twice in twice that I can remember in this.

11:59 Adam Yeah.

12:00 Adam It's not as it's not as prevalent in the books.

12:05 Adam In fact, the one thing that is great about the books is that I think there's at least three occurrences of It was around three o'clock when I was awoken by a sudden ejaculation from Holmes.

12:19 Adam And there you go, the time's gone.

12:21 Lee Told you.

12:22 Adam The other way.

12:24 Adam So, so if anything he should have ejaculated more than the elementary because there's probably more times that occurs in the books.

12:31 Adam It's a bit sort of beam me up, Scotty, sort of things where it's like or you dirty rat where it's things that people said possibly once and then it sort of becomes this part of it.

12:39 Adam Much the same as the deer stalker's an invention of Sydney Paget.

12:43 Adam It's not in the stories per se.

12:46 Adam and Holmes dresses like that for the countryside, so it works that it's sort of Hound of the Baskervilles.

12:55 Adam But you know, he wouldn't necessarily be wandering around London in an Inverness cape and a.

13:03 Adam deer stalker because that was that was country dress.

13:08 Adam So again, I wonder if it's the sort of the Hound of the Baskervilles is the most popular or the most recognized Sherlock Holmes story.

13:15 Adam And because of that, that's the image that is portrayed of Holmes.

13:22 Adam Whereas in actual fact, yeah, I mean, they sort of got it pretty accurate with the Jeremy Brett version where I think he wears it in Hound of the Baskervilles and that's about it.

13:33 Adam Whereas the rest of the time he's about town, so he's just wearing a top out or whatever.

13:36 Adam So it's yeah.

13:38 Lee Now you're saying about Arthur Conan Doyle, there is a really good series that Jennifer and I found on TV when we were on holiday and came back and bought the box set. and it's called 'Houdini and Doyle'.

13:50 Lee Did you ever see that Adam?

13:51 Adam Oh, yes.

13:51 Adam Yes, I've heard of it, yeah.

13:53 Chris That sounds interesting.

13:54 Chris Because Houdini was quite science-based.

13:55 Adam I think it's based on books as well.

13:58 Adam I think it's a series of books.

13:59 Lee I'll have to dig that out.

14:00 Chris Wasn't Houdini quite science based? And it's that this I think I heard they used to sort of argue over.

14:03 Chris Because surprisingly Arthur Conan Doyle was quite into spiritualism and pseudo science which is odd because he's made one of the most rational people ever to exist.

14:11 Adam Yeah.

14:12 Adam Well, I mean this this was the this was the curious thing is because I mean and it's it's weird because he had another great character, which is a character called Professor Challenger.

14:24 Adam And that's the story of 'The Lost World', like the original story of where it's.

14:29 Adam They basically go exploring in South America and find a plateau where dinosaurs are still in existence.

14:34 Adam there's I think there's been adaptations of it, but no one's ever done because there were quite a few Professor Challenger stories.

14:41 Adam I think five in total, I mean it wasn't like anything like the amount that he did Sherlock Holmes.

14:46 Adam But he had this other recurring character.

14:49 Adam And

14:50 Adam the main reason that I'm glad it's not been adapted is because the one man who could play it is probably too old to do it now because Professor Challenger is like in his sort of thirties or forties.

15:02 Adam

15:03 Adam But when you read the book, it is Brian Blessed.

15:06 Lee I knew you were going to say that name.

15:07 Adam Yeah.

15:08 Adam He's literally impossible not to read it as Brian Blessed.

15:13 Adam He's got this huge beard, he's this bellowing sort of loony bear of a man who's like, you know, embraces people and climbing fucking mountains and stuff like that.

15:22 Adam You know, he's just this sort of.

15:24 Adam huge.

15:25 Adam Brian Blessed essentially.

15:27 Adam And

15:28 Adam Yeah, so it's a missed opportunity that he didn't play him sort of like a few years ago.

15:32 Adam But then,

15:33 Adam the weird thing is that the Professor Challenger books do have weird and unusual stuff in it. It's almost sci-fi because you've got things like undiscovered dinosaurs, there's a mysterious gas that comes out of the planet when they're doing drilling like when they're doing like a drilling project or something like that.

15:48 Adam But then really unfortunately, the last of the Professor Challenger books is like a thinly sort of veiled sort of like, isn't isn't spiritualism great.

15:59 Adam And and and it's literally like and it's literally to the point where it's sort of like the character the debunking characters who don't like spiritualism are practically called things like Mr. Nasty, probably a paedophile.

16:15 Adam And whereas all the spiritualists are called like Mr. Braveheart and Mr. Mr. True, absolute unequivocal truth and he'd do the dishes if you asked him. or miss Mrs. would always lend you a fiver.

16:29 Adam You know, they're

16:30 Adam they are irredeemably good and everyone who is against spiritualism is clearly a vicious party pooping shitter who just doesn't want people to realize that the their loved ones can talk to them kindly through these mediums for a vast sum of money.

16:41 Adam

16:42 Adam but fortunately Homes is never like Con Doyle never sort of did that with Homes.

16:49 Adam He was

16:50 Adam I I think in a weird way because he got quite sick of writing Sherlock Holmes and that's why he killed him off.

17:00 Adam And I wonder if it is almost because you're in this conflict with your own creation who basically is like, no.

17:07 Chris Yeah.

17:08 Adam This is all bullshit, there's only reality now stop being so fucking stupid.

17:15 Adam And

17:16 Adam yeah, I think that that might have been partially why.

17:21 Adam he sort of killed him off and was.

17:25 Adam And again,

17:25 Adam probably why he I think he lost interest in home in writing the stories.

17:31 Adam

17:32 Adam and

17:33 Adam So the and I also think that this is the main reason why Hound of the Baskervilles is the one.

17:40 Adam That everyone's like always like.

17:41 Adam So Sherlock Holmes right the Baskervilles, that's the classic.

17:44 Adam one, that's the one that people could name, that's the one people probably have seen a version of, it's the one that gets made into sort of forty odd movie versions and TV movie versions and stuff like that.

17:56 Adam It's.

17:58 Lee We got tricked.

17:59 Adam And

18:00 Adam basically

18:00 Lee what happened

18:01 Lee Sorry?

18:02 Lee I was going to say we got tricked into watching one. so in 1937, there was they made one called 'Murder at the Baskervilles', which is actually 'Silver Blaze'.

18:19 Adam Oh, right.

18:20 Adam Okay.

18:20 Lee But the idea is he Hemry first, so then he gets invited there for the weekend and his neighbor gets his race horse nicked, so he deals with it while he's down, so we watched it thinking it was a Baskerville one and it isn't, it's 'The Silver Blaze' story.

18:31 Lee But as you say because everyone associates Baskerville, they just nicked the name and reappropriated it, so.

18:40 Adam Was that an English one or a German one or something?

18:42 Lee It's English.

18:44 Lee It's very.

18:44 Adam Was it silent or.

18:46 Lee No, no, it's.

18:46 Lee It's got sound and everything, but you said, didn't you, like the Jennifer, it's one of those.

18:51 Adam All right.

18:51 Jennifer Very early where it feels like a stage production.

18:53 Jennifer It's lots of locked off cameras and.

18:55 Lee Yeah.

18:56 Jennifer poor acting but more because you feel they're acting as if they're on the stage rather than a sort of natural so yeah, it was very very dated.

19:05 Adam Because I because I know that there was like, I think the first adaption the first film adaption was a German one and that had like five sequels that all seem to be.

19:13 Adam So I wondered if it was part of that that they'd sort of just thought, well, we've got to keep Baskerville in it.

19:18 Adam So but.

19:20 Adam But yeah.

19:21 Adam When so obviously you've got, I think I think basically you have the you have two books and then two sets of short stories. I've everything was published initially in 'The Strand' magazine, like the Sherlock Holmes stories.

19:38 Adam So it was the novels serialized and then the short stories would appear and everything else like that.

19:42 Adam And then he got.

19:44 Adam So he got annoyed with Holmes and killed him off.

19:49 Adam in the 'Final Problem'.

19:53 Adam And that was.

19:54 Adam 1893.

19:57 Adam So and obviously at the time it was like, you know, mass mourning, people were walking around with black armbands and you know, because of the death of this beloved fictitious character.

20:05 Lee It's the 'Houdini and Doyle' show as well.

20:08 Lee Is it it's set just after he'd written the 'Final Problem'.

20:12 Lee So all the way through while the two of them are doing their investigations, people keep telling him what a shit he is for killing off Sherlock.

20:22 Chris Yeah.

20:23 Adam Yeah.

20:25 Adam I like that.

20:26 Adam But I think yeah, so he he was and he was kind of adamant with it.

20:32 Adam He was going to stick to his guns.

20:34 Adam And.

20:35 Adam You know,

20:36 Adam that was that.

20:37 Adam

20:39 Adam And then he went on.

20:42 Adam Well, what was it?

20:43 Adam I I mean, I'll give you the I've got the backstory.

20:46 Adam Because there's a lot of folk myth and folklore that goes into 'Hound of the Baskervilles'.

20:52 Adam From Conan Doyle.

20:53 Adam And basically in so yes, so he kills off Sherlock he kills off Holmes in 1893.

21:01 Adam And then.

21:02 Adam In 1901 he goes on a Arthur Conan Doyle goes on a golfing holiday with a friend of his.

21:08 Adam Bertram Fletcher Robinson whose nickname was Bubbles.

21:12 Lee Oh.

21:12 Adam So so he's gone on the golfing holiday with Bubbles Fletcher Robinson.

21:15 Adam

21:16 Adam and when it when it was raining inevitably, they would just sit around the hotel.

21:23 Adam And.

21:24 Adam Fletcher Robinson would tell Arthur Conan Doyle about local legends.

21:29 Adam So the first one that came up was first thing he was talking about was Black Shuck, which I'm sure you'll have heard about in terms of it's one of the big myths of the British Isles, the sort of spectral Phantom Black dog.

21:42 Adam

21:43 Adam which is sort of East Anglia and Essex folklore and but there's there's sort of black dog.

21:49 Adam Phantom black dogs up and down the country.

21:52 Lee We had one when we were there, they said it was part of their local folk legend.

21:55 Lee That there's a black dog.

21:56 Lee That

21:57 Lee haunts the streets at night and takes away anyone out after dark.

22:00 Lee We didn't find it.

22:01 Jennifer No, sorry with that.

22:02 Adam Yeah, they've got.

22:04 Adam They've got ones they've got ones in Scotland.

22:06 Adam And yeah, it's something that just is pretty sort of.

22:10 Adam centric to the British Isles for some reason.

22:14 Jennifer Keep children in at night, simple.

22:16 Jennifer Easier.

22:17 Adam So Black Shuck, the word actually is.

22:21 Adam Probably from an old English word which is shuka for fiend or devil.

22:25 Adam And the stories of Black Shuck vary sort of considerably.

22:28 Adam He's always a large black dog, but sometimes he's just a large dog and then anything up to like the size of a horse.

22:34 Adam So they really, you know.

22:36 Adam he's even been portraying it usually has red or yellow glowing eyes.

22:43 Adam occasionally he's portrayed as a cyclops.

22:46 Adam Not sure why.

22:46 Adam

22:47 Adam and he's often regarded as a harbinger of disaster or death.

22:53 Adam But then also other stories he is a protector or a guide, he sort of protects.

23:00 Adam lone women walking alone at night or he guides people through stuff like The Grimpen Mire, you know, he would sort of that.

23:05 Adam You know, he'd be people would be led by following this phantom dog that doesn't.

23:10 Adam

23:11 Adam But where's the

23:12 Adam quote.

23:13 Adam I got.

23:15 Adam He takes the form of a huge black dog and prowls along dark lanes and lonesome field footpaths where, although his howling makes the hearer's blood run cold, his footfalls make no sound.

23:24 Adam But such an encounter may bring you the worst of luck, it is even said that to meet him is to be warned that your death will occur before the end of the year.

23:31 Adam So you will do well to shut your eyes if you hear him howling, shut them even if you are uncertain whether it is the dog fiend or the voice of the wind you hear.

23:39 Adam You may perhaps doubt his existence and, like other learned folks, tell us that his story is nothing but the old Scandinavian myth of the black hound of Odin, brought to us by the Vikings.

23:46 Adam

23:47 Adam So yes, so that's Black Shuck.

23:49 Adam And that clearly tickled Arthur Conan Doyle's fancy.

23:53 Adam

23:53 Adam And then Conan Doyle went.

23:55 Adam Decided that he and Fletcher Robinson would co-write a really good supernatural story.

24:00 Adam incidentally,

24:00 Adam they were also at that time reading a story in 'The Strand' magazine called 'Followed'.

24:06 Adam Which is basically, from what I gather, is basically The Hound of the Baskervilles with a big snake rather than a dog.

24:12 Chris How do they dress the snake up?

24:13 Adam Like it's no, I think someone just gets what is it they get snake attracting powder put on their boots.

24:18 Adam So it's like it's even to that point.

24:20 Adam Someone's just someone's looked at it and just gone, you know, if you made that a dog, you could just do it by scent.

24:24 Lee Oh.

24:24 Chris Fuck, yeah, right, okay.

24:26 Adam

24:27 Adam So we know they've read that but that's that's by the by.

24:31 Adam Because I think half of the definitely the pleasure of Conan Doyle is how well he writes anymore so than the stories that he does.

24:38 Adam So,

24:38 Adam

24:40 Adam Conan Doyle went.

24:41 Adam Stayed at Fletcher Robinson's family home, Park Hill House in Ipplepen, which is on the outskirts of Dartmoor.

24:49 Adam Fletcher Robinson then told him the story of Richard Cabell the Third.

24:53 Adam The squire of Brook Hall in nearby Buckfastleigh also known as Dirty Dick.

24:59 Adam Cabell definitely seems to be an inspiration for Hugo Baskerville described as a monstrously evil man.

25:06 Adam He had a reputation for immorality, debauchery and the locals believed he'd sold his soul to the devil.

25:12 Adam And murdered his wife and murdered his wife.

25:14 Lee Nice.

25:14 Adam

25:15 Adam and again, some saying that he drove her to ground with a pack of hounds.

25:19 Lee Oh.

25:20 Adam He lived a hunt.

25:20 Adam But when he eventually died, he was buried at the Holy Trinity Church in Buckfastleigh.

25:26 Adam And when he was buried a pack of Phantom Hounds were said to have come from the moor to bait and howl at his tomb.

25:31 Adam Following that, the ghost of Cabell was then seen regularly hunting on the Moors with these hellish hounds.

25:36 Adam In an effort to lay the ghost and this is a place you can go and visit still.

25:41 Adam In an effort to lay the ghost, a free standing mausoleum was constructed around Cabell's grave.

25:47 Adam With a large stone slab over the top of the coffin and the windows barred with iron railings.

25:53 Adam Now.

25:54 Adam This this story is such a sort of ingrained part of Buckfastleigh that during World War II, you know when they were taking all sort of ornamental railings and stuff up to add to the war effort for munitions and manufacture and stuff like that.

26:03 Adam

26:05 Adam the locals successfully campaigned to keep the railings on this too during World War II.

26:12 Adam They were that adamant that like.

26:14 Adam No, we are not letting Richard Cabell out.

26:15 Lee Yeah.

26:16 Adam

26:16 Lee Yeah.

26:17 Jennifer They could have told him off and sent him off to fight, you know.

26:19 Adam Yeah, exactly.

26:19 Adam I mean, this is the thing, you should I mean, that would have been that would have probably been Crowley's answer to it.

26:23 Adam It would have just been like.

26:25 Adam unleash him, I don't know.

26:28 Adam I don't know if that's his voice.

26:29 Adam But it could be.

26:31 Adam

26:32 Adam Also one of the one of the local stories.

26:33 Adam Is that if you walk thirteen times around the graveyard withershins.

26:37 Adam Or anti-clockwise, and then stick your finger in the keyhole of the tomb.

26:41 Adam he bites your finger off.

26:42 Lee No.

26:43 Adam So it's.

26:45 Adam Yeah.

26:45 Lee Oh.

26:46 Adam Yeah.

26:46 Lee It's

26:47 Adam That's what happened.

26:47 Adam Terry Nutkins.

26:49 Adam Wasn't a bloody seal at all.

26:50 Adam The liar.

26:51 Adam

26:52 Adam And then.

26:53 Adam Also at Park Hill House like Fletcher Robinson's house, the groom of slash footman was Henry Harry Baskerville.

27:01 Lee Oh.

27:01 Adam Who would go on to say in later years that he inspired the Baskerville name, claiming that both Fletcher Robinson and Conan Doyle had asked him for permission to use the name.

27:10 Adam And he owned a copy of the novel inscribed to Henry Baskerville from Fletcher Robinson with apologies for using the name.

27:16 Lee Nice.

27:17 Lee Nice.

27:19 Adam But.

27:20 Adam There's also another branch.

27:22 Adam of the Baskerville family, the Baskervilles of Clyro Court on the English Welsh border.

27:26 Adam Which is now called Baskerville House Hotel if you want to go and stay there.

27:30 Lee Ooh.

27:31 Adam And it it looks the part.

27:33 Adam It really fucking does.

27:34 Adam

27:35 Adam and they were also visited by Conan Doyle and again, they claimed that he asked them for use of the permission to use the name Baskerville.

27:41 Adam They said that they agreed on the understanding that no real life connection was made between them, their house and the locality in the book.

27:41 Adam But I mean, obviously they'd kind of decided they were doing a Dartmoor story anyway, like Fletcher Robinson and Conan Doyle had.

27:45 Adam So.

27:47 Adam

27:48 Adam Yeah, so that was going to.

27:49 Adam So that didn't.

27:50 Adam See that as a problem.

27:51 Adam Now these.

27:51 Adam Baskervilles also have a phantom dog legend.

27:54 Adam the story went that they had a faithful wolfhound that kept whimpering and howling to alert the family there was a wolf at the door.

28:00 Adam and then in exasperation with the animal's agitated display, the master of the house drove a spear through its head.

28:05 Adam To get it to shut up.

28:06 Adam And their crest is actually.

28:08 Adam a has a a wolf or wolfhound looking head on its crest with the state with the spear through its head and like five drops of blood.

28:15 Lee That's pretty cool.

28:16 Adam Which is pretty down.

28:17 Lee It's pretty.

28:17 Adam And then and obviously with it and in terms of the story it turns out the dog was right.

28:19 Adam There was a wolf.

28:20 Adam So you know.

28:21 Adam well done fella.

28:23 Adam So the ghost of this wolfhound supposedly appears whenever a member of the Baskerville family is due to die.

28:29 Adam And he appears with the spear through his head.

28:31 Adam

28:32 Adam and

28:34 Adam But also this group of Baskervilles intermarried with a group called the Vaughns.

28:38 Adam That with a family called the Vaughns of nearby Hergest Hall.

28:41 Adam They also have a phantom dog fucking story with with them.

28:43 Lee Oh.

28:43 Adam Right, so it's.

28:44 Adam It's brilliant.

28:45 Adam This is.

28:46 Adam

28:47 Adam And they also have another candidate for inspiring Hugo Baskerville.

28:51 Adam because they had Squire Thomas Vaughan who was known as Black Vaughan.

28:55 Adam in the late 15th century, who along with his wife Ellena the Terrible was a wicked man and a scourge of the locals.

28:59 Adam He apparently,

29:00 Adam he used to set his dogs on anyone who annoyed him.

29:02 Adam

29:03 Adam and

29:05 Adam He was in he fought in the War of the Roses and switched sides halfway through and was beheaded at the Battle of Bamburgh.

29:11 Adam where one of his black bloodhounds appeared and carried its master's head away in its jaws, and that's the story.

29:16 Adam And then.

29:18 Adam Then Vaughan's ghost began.

29:19 Adam Terrorizing the area, overturning carts.

29:22 Adam And taking the form of either a black bull or an immense fly.

29:26 Adam

29:27 Adam Eventually an exorcism was ordered to settle the ghost, twelve priests summoned the spirit and through arduous chanting and prayer.

29:32 Adam Eventually shrunk the spirit to the size of a blowfly and incased it in a snuff box.

29:38 Adam Vaughan's last entreaty was to be not buried beneath water and then the priests immediately buried the snuff box under the bed of a brook and Vaughan's spirit was silenced forever.

29:43 Adam But.

29:43 Adam The Phantom of his black dog still appears and was a member of if he owned for members of the Vaughan family.

29:52 Adam but the Vaughan family, that branch of the Vaughan family fucking died out.

29:55 Adam So obviously they saw a lot of Phantom dogs in their time.

29:58 Lee Okay.

29:59 Adam So.

30:00 Adam And so basically.

30:00 Adam So they came up with this they came up with the story and they wanted the Hound and everything else like that.

30:07 Adam And then Conan Doyle was like.

30:08 Adam Well, I've only got one I've only rather than invent a character.

30:13 Adam I'll just bring back Sherlock Holmes.

30:15 Lee Yeah.

30:16 Adam Yeah.

30:17 Adam So 1902 the thing's published.

30:19 Adam And at that point it was published with.

30:22 Adam Fletcher Robinson as co-author.

30:25 Adam He was credited according to Conan Doyle's wishes, but that then has been later sort of missed off and it's now just credited solely to Conan Doyle.

30:32 Lee Interesting.

30:34 Adam Although.

30:35 Adam Fletcher Robinson did receive royalties.

30:37 Adam Royalties payment for it and stuff like that.

30:38 Adam And actually Conan Doyle had sold the story to 'The Strand' for fifty pounds per thousand words, then told them he was doing it Sherlock Holmes.

30:44 Adam And up that to a hundred pounds per thousand words.

30:45 Lee Wow.

30:46 Adam Because he knew that.

30:47 Adam You know,

30:48 Adam people were like.

30:49 Adam And so yeah.

30:50 Adam So 190 when yeah, so when it comes out in 1902.

30:53 Adam Obviously, everyone has been Sherlock starved for well, 1901 it was serialized.

30:58 Adam 1902 then the book comes out.

31:00 Adam But yeah.

31:00 Adam Basically everyone was like, oh, thank fuck more Sherlock.

31:03 Adam More Sherlock.

31:04 Adam Because and obviously it's a belt of a story.

31:08 Lee Yeah, I know how they feel.

31:09 Adam Yeah.

31:11 Adam So I think.

31:12 Adam I think that's why Hound is like the classic one because it was the probably the first one that was like.

31:17 Adam It was like the sequel making more money than the original at the box office or something like that.

31:23 Adam Where, you know, I think it was just like so many people by this point, you know, people had probably caught up, what is the fuss about this Sherlock Holmes?

31:29 Adam You know, when you when you see people mourning a fictional character.

31:31 Adam You're probably going to be like, well, maybe I'll check this out.

31:33 Adam And then, you know, you've gone through, you've done you've done the 'Strand' magazine equivalent of a Netflix box box set and you're like, oh, I wish I'd known about this when they were still writing them.

31:39 Adam And then.

31:40 Adam Hound comes out.

31:42 Adam And the interesting thing is that the Hound of the Baskervilles is meant to be an earlier case.

31:48 Adam So Conan Doyle.

31:49 Adam statement on it was that no this was found in Watson's papers.

31:52 Adam This is pre.

31:53 Lee He's still.

31:54 Adam Yeah.

31:55 Lee This works.

31:55 Adam Yeah.

31:56 Adam But it was such a success.

31:58 Lee Bring him back.

31:59 Adam He brought him back in 'The Empty House' in 1903.

32:03 Adam And that's when he actually resurrects the character as he falsified his own death and everything.

32:08 Adam And goes on to have however many more further adventures.

32:10 Adam So.

32:11 Adam It's kind of the.

32:13 Adam It's it's kind of weird because it's like it's the absolute sort of pinnacle of Sherlock Mania, I suppose or whatever like that or interest in it.

32:21 Adam

32:22 Adam and yeah, so I think.

32:23 Adam That's why it's sort of so memorable.

32:26 Chris Like Sherlock is so clever.

32:27 Chris He brought himself back from the dead.

32:28 Chris Yeah.

32:29 Chris You know.

32:30 Chris To be rewritten.

32:31 Chris If you can make a character that good that you are compelled to resurrect him. Well, I mean this is the thing, is even even at that point, even though because Conan Doyle wrote horror stories.

32:39 Adam There's he's he's there's a really good mummy story that he did.

32:43 Adam It's like 'Lot'.

32:44 Lee Oh, yeah, we've got the the Ladybird book, wasn't it?

32:46 Jennifer Oh, Ladybird.

32:47 Lee Ladybird, Ladybird.

32:49 Adam It was Ladybird.

32:50 Lee Yeah.

32:51 Adam Yeah.

32:51 Lee I had that as a kid.

32:51 Adam Because Yeah, I had that one and but that yeah, that's that's Conan Doyle.

32:54 Adam And the interestingly enough those Ladybird books, they they were Frankenstein, Dracula.

33:00 Adam The Mummy, which was lot whatever, Jekyll and Hyde and Hound of the Baskervilles.

33:04 Adam So even in those.

33:05 Adam They considered Hound of the Baskervilles a horror story.

33:07 Lee Yeah.

33:08 Adam And it.

33:08 Adam And I mean it's it's sort of it's definitely the one that because whatever happens, you've still got like this folklore story in there, so it's still because that's obviously I mean like I mean like I say, I mean how many fucking Baskervilles with black dog stories did you want to find?

33:20 Adam But you know, they managed to sort of successfully cover them all and create this thing.

33:24 Adam But again, it was that sort of tension where Conan Doyle was like, right, I need.

33:28 Adam I need a character who's going to explain why this has come about.

33:32 Adam And it's it's a strange thing.

33:33 Adam You know, where where he was quite happy to write fictions of, you know, he was quite prepared to write supernatural fiction for one of a better expression, but he was very determined that Hound of the Baskervilles would have a rational explanation.

33:49 Adam And therefore.

33:50 Adam He brings in the arch rationalist.

33:52 Adam And it's interesting that Holmes never the he knew in a weird way never to do that with Holmes.

33:57 Adam Yeah.

33:57 Adam Yeah.

33:57 Adam Yeah.

33:58 Adam Because I I suppose weirdly, I mean, this is that point is it's almost like, well if Holmes is right all the time.

34:04 Adam Then it would be a very fundamental thing to have been wrong.

34:09 Chris Yeah.

34:10 Adam I suppose.

34:10 Adam I don't know.

34:11 Adam But.

34:12 Adam Yeah.

34:13 Adam It's such an obnoxious.

34:14 Lee He has such a massive backstory.

34:16 Lee So Chris, considering as you said that you're not not as versed in Sherlock Holmes.

34:21 Lee How did you find this just as a a Hammer film sort of stand alone?

34:28 Chris yeah, I suppose it's interesting because of sort of the two elements being brought together.

34:37 Chris It like they seem to have done this really well for it being sort of the Hammer style yet still getting across Sherlock Holmes effectively.

34:45 Chris And it's interesting, you know that all those actors can play the roles and it just works really well.

34:53 Chris and I suppose that is as we've said that Sherlock has all the elements of supernatural horror, even if the final explanation is a rational one.

35:05 Chris And Yeah, yeah, essentially.

35:08 Chris but yeah, and and the main character is not exactly the supernatural one, it's Holmes, but you know, they play off each other so well.

35:15 Chris So I you know, it's it's very enjoyable to watch they seem to have held up really well.

35:27 Chris

35:28 Chris Yeah.

35:28 Chris And it had enough elements of you know, it's quite tense at points but it's also quite entertaining, there seemed to be quite a bit of drinking throughout, not just at the party.

35:41 Chris You know.

35:41 Chris Like so yeah, they had all the right characters in there.

35:44 Chris It was really good.

35:45 Chris And again just Peter Cushing.

35:47 Chris so it's hard to you know, not not enjoy it just for that alone.

35:52 Lee It's a funny role for Cushing.

35:53 Lee Because as Adam said, you can see his love for the character.

35:56 Lee Because he plays him so well, that kind of almost obnoxious.

35:59 Lee kind of

36:00 Chris Yeah.

36:01 Lee you know, he knows he's better than him.

36:03 Lee But it's funny to see Peter Cushing do that because he normally plays such an amiable character to his own entertainment.

36:08 Chris Well, yeah, side from talking.

36:13 Lee Yeah.

36:13 Adam Well,

36:13 Adam that's the thing you that's the thing is he's either he's either a bastard or or he's lovely to actually see someone who's the hero being a bastard.

36:25 Lee Yeah.

36:25 Adam Yeah.

36:26 Adam I mean,

36:26 Adam that that bit where it's like enjoy your rabbit stew.

36:30 Lee Yeah.

36:31 Adam Go talk to your peasant friends.

36:35 Adam It's like, fuck me, mate.

36:36 Lee Putting in punches.

36:37 Adam

36:37 Jennifer Jennifer.

36:38 Adam Because weirdly the other thing as well is I think you've got a.

36:41 Adam I think all the bit part because apart from Cushing, Lee and Andre Morell.

36:48 Adam These aren't.

36:49 Adam You know what I mean, you haven't necessarily got a cast of Oh, I don't know, I suppose they are faces.

36:57 Chris I recognize John Le Mesurier.

36:58 Chris Now, I hadn't actually seen him in anything.

37:00 Chris But I always remember him from the BBC radio adaption of 'Lord of the Rings'.

37:03 Jennifer Must have seen 'Dad's Army'.

37:05 Chris I I mean, I didn't know he was in it, I didn't know that was him.

37:08 Chris I 'Dad's Army' was on on occasion.

37:09 Chris I never particularly watched it.

37:10 Jennifer No, fair enough.

37:11 Chris No diss.

37:13 Adam And and obviously the narrator of 'Bod' as well.

37:16 Adam He's he's got quite a lot of voice over.

37:17 Adam Stuff and.

37:18 Adam 'Home Pride Flour', I have to say this I'm very pleased that it's given me the opportunity to talk about John Le Mesurier.

37:23 Adam Because I just love.

37:25 Adam He was such a lovely man, again, very much in the Peter Cushing end of things where it's like someone who is an absolute gentleman who you never hear anyone saying, you know, a bad word about them.

37:33 Adam And just genuinely.

37:36 Adam Yeah, I mean, he was so he was married three times.

37:40 Adam His second wife was Hattie Jacques.

37:42 Adam And they had two sons together.

37:44 Adam Now Hattie Jacques started having an affair with her driver and John Le Mesurier had just met a woman called Joan who was going to become his third wife.

37:49 Adam But John Le Mesurier was basically like.

37:52 Adam Well, shall I just go in the spare room? Because you've you know, you're obviously.

37:57 Adam And then because of because of he could mention Joan.

38:01 Adam He then took the role of the person at fault in the divorce settlement so that she wouldn't get the scandal attached to her.

38:09 Lee Oh, that's nice.

38:10 Adam But.

38:10 Adam Because obviously I mean.

38:11 Adam It's I mean, like it's any fucking different now, but certainly at the time much more, you know, very much like Bloke, that's fine.

38:20 Adam Yeah, he went off an affair.

38:21 Adam A woman.

38:22 Adam It would have been she was shunned.

38:23 Adam That's it, her reputation is.

38:24 Adam Through no one wants to work with her and everything.

38:27 Adam So John like was like, no, I'll just look, I'll be the I'll be the one at the fault in the divorce.

38:31 Adam So that she it wouldn't affect her career and stuff like that.

38:33 Adam And basically they remained.

38:35 Adam He remained friends with Hattie until she died.

38:39 Adam you know, like they were it was very amicable.

38:41 Adam And they had two sons together.

38:43 Adam And there's a lovely interview with one of his sons saying who was saying like one of their sons where he was saying he was.

38:48 Adam going off the rails a bit because he used to be in the music industry.

38:51 Adam and he's like, you know, he said, I was doing a lot of naughty things.

38:54 Adam And my mum was worried, so she got John to come and see me.

38:57 Adam And apparently he just turned around and was like, I know you're not going to take any notice of me, you know, you can take a blind but you notice.

39:02 Adam But.

39:02 Adam you know.

39:03 Adam Just for your mum's sake.

39:06 Adam Even if you don't.

39:06 Adam Stop, just make it look like you've stopped for her sake just because otherwise, you know, she worries.

39:09 Adam Bless her.

39:10 Adam And it's not going to.

39:11 Adam And then sort of like that that chat and then he went, right.

39:14 Adam So, have you got a joint?

39:17 Adam

39:19 Adam Yeah.

39:19 Adam And anyway, so.

39:20 Adam I mean.

39:20 Adam And then he married Joan.

39:23 Adam and then about a few months into that marriage, Tony Hancock's own marriage had collapsed and he was married to Tony Hancock.

39:28 Adam So he said to Tony Hancock, you could come and stay there.

39:31 Adam Tony Hancock came out had an affair with fucking Joan.

39:34 Lee Oh.

39:34 Adam God.

39:35 Adam And and but.

39:36 Adam Like so she went off with Tony Hancock, realized that life with Tony Hancock was a fucking living nightmare because he was a paranoid drunk depressive at that point.

39:43 Chris That seemed exciting. I love Hancock.

39:47 Adam But I wouldn't have wanted to hang around with him.

39:50 Adam That's that's another.

39:51 Adam But anyway.

39:52 Adam But yeah, so she ended up going back to John and he was like again, there was no sort of like.

39:58 Chris Well, welcome back.

39:59 Adam Yeah.

40:00 Adam It was.

40:00 Adam Yeah, pretty much.

40:01 Adam

40:02 Adam But I mean, he was where was it when he died? Well, his last words were credit he often said to be it was all rather lovely really.

40:09 Adam were apparently his last words.

40:10 Adam So I think he was just a very nice gentle.

40:12 Adam A a gentleman.

40:12 Adam You know,

40:14 Adam I think he was just a very nice, calm sort of easy going diet.

40:17 Adam And.

40:18 Adam

40:19 Adam His his own.

40:20 Adam His own insistence.

40:22 Adam Joan took out a notice and an obituary notice in 'The Times'.

40:25 Adam Which read, John Le Mesurier wishes it to be known that he conked out on the 15th of November.

40:30 Adam He sadly misses his.

40:31 Adam Friends and family.

40:32 Adam

40:32 Adam And this is.

40:33 Adam This is one of my favorite stories about John Le Mes is that he won a best actor Bafta in 1972.

40:36 Adam for a straight role in a 'Play For Today' episode called 'Traitor'.

40:42 Adam

40:42 Adam And after he won, he sat in the audience and lit up a massive fucking joint and the cameras had to keep cutting around him because every time they cut back they just had the thing with the joint flaming.

40:54 Adam And you know, and everyone was like.

40:55 Adam Princess Anne was attending.

40:56 Adam You can't be smoking a joint.

40:59 Adam But.

40:59 Adam Basically, the whole thing boiled down to, they can't throw him out.

41:05 Adam He just won best actor.

41:06 Adam So.

41:06 Adam It's just.

41:07 Adam But he was.

41:07 Adam Yeah, I mean and and obviously just like in so many.

41:11 Adam You know, so many comedy things, not just like that Dad's Army, but he was in like loads of Hancock stuff.

41:16 Adam And 'Ripping Yarns' and.

41:18 Adam Yeah, 'Spaceman and King Arthur'.

41:20 Adam And 'The Wrong' the 'Law'.

41:20 Adam And 'Pink Panther'.

41:21 Adam And.

41:21 Adam He it's weird to see him as a butler.

41:22 Adam Because he's usually either medics or judges seem to be he's kind of the roles that he tends to get.

41:25 Adam

41:26 Adam Apparently also.

41:27 Adam And I didn't know this.

41:28 Adam Apparently originally him and Arthur Lowe were meant to play the opposite character in 'Dad's Army'.

41:34 Adam And John Le Mesurier sort of like.

41:36 Adam Oh.

41:37 Adam I imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.

41:38 Adam Because I think I think to be honest, I think it's a bit like Johnny that the film 'Johnny Dangerously'.

41:42 Adam Yeah, someone slapped me once.

41:44 Adam Once, yes.

41:46 Adam So.

41:46 Adam Certainly not in.

41:46 Adam Most versions of it.

41:48 Adam But I think the and obviously you don't see much dog, to be honest, I think they do they sort of follow the jaws thing of probably realizing that the dog's not going to be great.

41:57 Adam So they.

41:58 Adam Stick to a lot of good howling and actually I do like the way everyone reacts.

42:02 Adam Like everyone reacts kind of well.

42:04 Adam In that sort of sense of like everyone's kind of well, no, what no what is that?

42:08 Adam You know what I mean.

42:09 Adam It's like it's like scared and curious.

42:11 Adam

42:12 Adam Yeah.

42:12 Adam And

42:13 Adam Yeah.

42:14 Adam And I think that and again it's it's sort of nice to see that this version of it pretty much sticks.

42:19 Adam pretty closely to the to the story in many ways.

42:21 Adam I mean, they changed the ending slightly, but then even down to that, it's kind of.

42:26 Adam probably a good thing for the people who knew the story.

42:29 Adam That you see this other version of it because otherwise, you know, it's sort of.

42:32 Adam You're like, well, I might as well have read the fucking thing.

42:34 Adam I don't know.

42:35 Adam So.

42:35 Adam

42:36 Adam Interestingly, this is the this is the first film version in color.

42:39 Lee Oh.

42:40 Adam So it was the first time that Holmes was in in glorious Technicolor.

42:43 Adam

42:44 Adam But also, and this was something I hadn't realized.

42:48 Adam it's the first time that it's done as a period piece.

42:54 Lee Okay.

42:54 Adam Because.

42:55 Lee Thank you.

42:55 Adam I don't know if you caught Claire.

42:57 Lee No.

42:57 Adam

42:58 Adam at the word period there.

42:59 Adam But that reader is why.

43:00 Lee I married.

43:00 Adam Her.

43:01 Adam but.

43:02 Adam Yeah, so it's.

43:03 Adam Because.

43:04 Adam I think.

43:05 Adam This is the first time when you'd got to a point where Holmes actually is of a different era.

43:08 Adam So a lot of the adaptations.

43:09 Adam Because I mean, Conan Doyle was writing the stories up until about 19.

43:13 Adam 1913, 1914, I think.

43:16 Adam You know, he was pretty much just up to the eve of the First World War, he was writing Sherlock Holmes.

43:20 Adam So a lot of the film adaptations.

43:21 Adam are contemporary because at that point Sherlock Holmes was kind of contemporary.

43:25 Adam It wasn't, you know, it wasn't as.

43:28 Adam Whereas this is the first time that they'd actually gone, right, so we'll set it in the Victorian era.

43:33 Adam Rather than.

43:34 Adam You know, oh, it's.

43:36 Adam Present day, much the same way as all the Stephen King adaptations now.

43:38 Adam It's like, well, anything that's set in the fifties we'll do it in the eighties.

43:43 Adam you know.

43:44 Adam But up until but for a while they just didn't bother, but now it's so much time has passed that it's like, right, that's going to be weird if someone's having a flashback to the fifties.

43:50 Adam you know.

43:51 Adam Who's the young character in this or whatever.

43:54 Adam So,

43:55 Adam Yeah, so this is the first sort of period version of it.

43:57 Adam As well, which is an interesting.

43:58 Adam Again, something I hadn't realized.

44:00 Adam I think it was like Kim Newman mentioned it.

44:02 Adam on like one of the extras or something.

44:04 Adam But

44:04 Adam Yeah, it was like, oh yeah, shit, this is thinking about it.

44:08 Adam Because I know that because that's the thing you've got like the the Basil Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes series.

44:13 Adam But they are all.

44:15 Adam contemporary because they were like sort of 1920s or whatever like that.

44:19 Adam So they weren't actually that far removed from Holmes.

44:22 Adam So they just accepted that.

44:24 Adam So there were certain things in there that weren't in the stories like say modern telephones or something like that.

44:27 Adam You know, it's sort of much more but that was just seen as.

44:30 Adam Oh yeah, well.

44:31 Adam That's what we'd have now.

44:32 Adam Rather than, oh yeah, let's go back and look at this from a I suppose it's a bit more difficult at that point as well.

44:38 Adam When you're like sort of only 15 years out of something.

44:40 Adam It's like.

44:41 Adam We've got to make this period place.

44:44 Adam Can you remember what we had them then?

44:45 Adam No, probably not.

44:45 Adam

44:46 Jennifer Well, phones in horror films now, isn't it?

44:48 Jennifer Well, like, at what point do they need to get some sort of plot where.

44:50 Jennifer Oh, the mobile phone has disappeared, otherwise it's not going to work because they'll just phone up the police and they'll be fixed.

44:55 Chris Yeah, I think we mentioned that before.

44:57 Chris Like battery running out, making a point of we've got plenty of batteries.

44:59 Chris What was it?

45:00 Chris It was 'Blair Witch', wasn't it?

45:00 Chris Yeah.

45:01 Jennifer Oh, I've lost my battery. Oh, it's broken. It's yeah.

45:06 Adam So.

45:07 Adam I think.

45:07 Lee I think the other thing I love about Sherlock Holmes is how much it's led to like an expanded universe.

45:12 Lee So obviously after the the Conan Doyle books, so many other people, so I went through a phase at the beginning of lockdown.

45:19 Lee I read all of the George Mann.

45:21 Lee The guy who does all the like the steampunk books.

45:23 Lee Wrote all the Sherlock Holmes.

45:24 Lee And they are exceptional.

45:26 Lee And that then led me into reading 'The Warlock Holmes', but I read the first one.

45:32 Lee I am going to read the others.

45:34 Lee Have you heard of Adam?

45:35 Adam I don't think I have, actually, no.

45:37 Jennifer Jennifer is showing it to the camera now.

45:39 Lee So basically it's the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but the idea is that he is actually a warlock and the police are after him, so he's having to help Scotland Yard because if he doesn't, they're going to lock him up for all of his crimes against humanity.

45:52 Lee And the is Transylvania.

45:53 Lee He's actually a vampire.

45:55 Lee And his henchman is like a golem type, but like they're really, really funny.

45:58 Lee But they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist and they're really entertaining.

46:08 Lee So again, it's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes.

46:12 Lee As you were saying, Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.

46:14 Lee You know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more.

46:19 Lee Like there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying, well actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.

46:26 Lee yeah, incredible stuff.

46:28 Jennifer That they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz.

46:36 Jennifer who writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories, there we go, but yeah, so his one, you know, 'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed.

46:41 Adam Oh, yes.

46:41 Adam Oh.

46:41 Jennifer From the Conan Doyle estates to to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes, yeah.

46:49 Adam Yeah.

46:50 Jennifer Which is.

46:50 Adam Well they did.

46:51 Adam They did a similar thing with James Bond because obviously Ian Fleming wrote the originally wrote the James Bond books and so there are official and unofficial sort of takes on that as well.

47:02 Adam I know there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good Holmes crossover stuff.

47:07 Adam because there's like Holmes and Lovecraft ones.

47:11 Lee Oh yeah, we've got a 'Study in Emerald', haven't we.

47:12 Lee Which is.

47:13 Lee Like which is a a graphic novel.

47:15 Lee But yeah.

47:15 Lee It's Homes basically fighting a I don't want to give.

47:19 Adam I don't remember now.

47:19 Lee I do.

47:20 Lee But I don't want to give away cuz I can't remember if it's a twist, but yeah, it's very H P Lovecraft once it all gets into it.

47:24 Adam I'm quite, I'm quite intrigued as well.

47:25 Adam Because I know that there is a, I think there's a collection of.

47:28 Adam people have done Sherlock Holmes and 'The Hellraiser' universe.

47:33 Lee Oh.

47:34 Lee Didn't know that.

47:35 Adam Which again, you know, I think there's a.

47:37 Adam I think the good.

47:37 Adam Because I mean, the good thing is, I mean, it basically is as soon as you're out of copyright.

47:40 Adam You can do what you like.

47:41 Adam You know.

47:42 Adam You can go to town because actually, I mean, this is the weird thing when they did the Jeremy Brett adaptations, they started in 1983.

47:48 Adam because that was the first time that Sherlock Holmes had become public domain because it's like a hundred years.

47:52 Lee Oh.

47:53 Adam So the first published works was.

47:54 Adam 1883.

47:55 Adam And so they started adapting from that position because up until that point, the Sherlock Holmes estate and Conan Doyle's estate had never let ITV do it.

48:03 Adam Which is ironic.

48:04 Adam When you consider consider how well 'The Granada' series is.

48:07 Adam But yeah, they wouldn't let ITV do it because they were a bit sort of ITV, you know, they're not going to do it properly.

48:12 Adam Are they?

48:13 Adam They're probably going to put a page three bird in there and vote Labour.

48:17 Lee And then.

48:18 Lee It ends up being to a lot of us, myself and Adam, I believe, included.

48:21 Lee The definitive version of of Sherlock Holmes.

48:25 Adam Without a shadow of a doubt.

48:26 Adam And this is something obviously we'll come back to on our subsequent.

48:31 Chris I was going to ask, but yeah, that.

48:34 Adam I think.

48:34 Adam Yeah.

48:35 Lee So Adam.

48:36 Lee We're going to start wrapping up.

48:37 Lee Would you like to tell people what we're going to cover on our next episode?

48:42 Adam Our next episode is going to be a bit of a free for all in a way or it's certainly three the number.

48:48 Adam so we're going to look at three additional versions of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles'.

48:53 Adam There will be the original original Jesus.

48:57 Lee What original?

48:58 Adam The fuck this a fucking book you twat.

48:59 Adam Anyway.

49:00 Adam Right.

49:01 Adam And seen.

49:02 Adam

49:02 Adam Yes, we're going to look at three versions.

49:05 Adam We're going to look at the Jeremy Brett version that was on ITV in England, which is like a TV movie version as part of 'The Return of Sherlock Holmes' series, which was 1988.

49:17 Adam we're going to look.

49:17 Adam At Peter Cook and Dudley Moore's version from 1978, which surprisingly follows the plot quite a lot.

49:22 Lee Yeah.

49:23 Adam Despite not following a lot of it at all.

49:26 Adam And also 'The Hounds of Baskerville', the Sherlock adaption of it, which was to my memory, you know, that'll be the first time I've watched it in a long time.

49:37 Adam And to my memory they did a very good job of it and they also made a very good job.

49:40 Adam Again of that thing of being, right, people know Sherlock Holmes so we've got to do this faithfully.

49:45 Adam But in such.

49:45 Adam A way that it's new to people.

49:47 Adam Yeah.

49:48 Adam Properly.

49:48 Lee Which is what Gatiss is fantastic at, exactly the same as he did with Dracula.

49:53 Lee But I'm sure we'll.

49:54 Chris did he actually write that as well then?

49:55 Chris Is that I didn't.

49:56 Adam He's him and Stephen Moffat.

49:57 Adam together and basically, it's also slightly the reason why Stephen Moffat's not true when a bit you know at one point I think his mother died.

50:06 Adam Yeah.

50:07 Chris That's true.

50:08 Adam Halfway through series three of Sherlock.

50:10 Adam And series I don't know, eight or nine.

50:12 Adam Of Doctor Who.

50:13 Adam or was it yeah, like but yeah, basically so I think there was a a lot of fallout in that sort of sense.

50:16 Adam And and also I do suspect that's why Mark Gatiss wasn't naturally.

50:20 Adam Selected as the person to take over.

50:22 Adam From Stephen Moffat doing Doctor Who.

50:23 Adam Because I think, I think Mark Gatiss.

50:25 Adam Just sat there.

50:26 Adam And just went, well, fuck that for a game of soldiers and just seen what you've done for the past two years.

50:30 Adam Of like nearly burned yourself out completely.

50:32 Adam

50:33 Adam So.

50:33 Adam Yeah.

50:34 Lee I think the other thing I love about Sherlock Holmes is how much it's led to like an expanded universe.

50:40 Lee So obviously after the the Conan Doyle books, so many other people.

50:45 Lee So I went through a phase at the beginning of lockdown, I read all of the George Mann, the guy who does all the like the steampunk books.

50:51 Lee Wrote all the Sherlock Holmes.

50:53 Lee And they are exceptional.

50:55 Lee And that then led me into reading 'The Warlock Holmes', but I read the first one.

51:01 Lee I am going to read the others.

51:03 Lee Have you heard of Adam?

51:04 Adam I don't think I have, actually, no.

51:06 Jennifer Jennifer is showing it to the camera now.

51:08 Lee So basically it's the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but the idea is that he is actually a warlock and the police are after him, so he's having to help Scotland Yard because if he doesn't, they're going to lock him up for all of his crimes against humanity.

51:20 Lee And the is Transylvania.

51:21 Lee He's actually a vampire.

51:23 Lee And his henchman is like a golem type, but like they're really, really funny.

51:26 Lee But they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist and they're really entertaining.

51:31 Lee So again, it's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes.

51:35 Lee As you were saying, Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.

51:37 Lee You know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more, like there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying.

51:43 Lee Well actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.

51:49 Lee yeah, incredible stuff.

51:50 Jennifer But they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz.

52:00 Jennifer who writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories.

52:03 Adam Oh, yes.

52:04 Adam Oh.

52:05 Jennifer Yeah, there you go.

52:05 Jennifer But yeah, so his one.

52:07 Jennifer You know,

52:08 Jennifer 'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed from the Conan Doyle estate.

52:13 Jennifer To to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes.

52:17 Adam Yeah.

52:17 Jennifer Which is, you know, one of.

52:17 Adam Yeah.

52:18 Adam Well they.

52:18 Adam They did a similar thing with.

52:18 Adam James Bond because obviously Ian Fleming wrote the originally wrote the James Bond books.

52:24 Adam And so there are official and unofficial sort of takes on that as well.

52:29 Adam I know there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good Holmes crossover stuff.

52:34 Adam because there's like Holmes and Lovecraft ones.

52:38 Lee Oh yeah, we've got a 'Study in Emerald', haven't we.

52:39 Lee Which is.

52:40 Lee Like which is a a graphic novel, but yeah, is Homes basically fighting a.

52:45 Lee I don't want to.

52:46 Lee I don't want to.

52:47 Lee I do, but I don't want to give away cuz I can't remember if it's a twist.

52:49 Lee But yeah, it's very H P Lovecraft once it all.

52:52 Lee Gets into it.

52:53 Lee And the is Transylvania, he's actually a vampire.

52:57 Lee And his henchman is like a golem type.

52:58 Lee But like they're really, really funny.

53:00 Lee But they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist.

53:03 Lee And they're really entertaining.

53:06 Lee So again.

53:06 Lee It's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes, as you were saying Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.

53:12 Lee You know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more, like there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying.

53:17 Lee Well actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.

53:24 Lee yeah, incredible stuff.

53:26 Jennifer But they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz who writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories.

53:36 Adam Oh, yes.

53:37 Adam Oh.

53:37 Jennifer Yeah, there.

53:38 Jennifer You go.

53:39 Jennifer But yeah, so his one.

53:40 Jennifer You know, 'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed from the Conan Doyle estate.

53:44 Jennifer To to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes.

53:48 Adam Yeah.

53:49 Jennifer Which is.

53:50 Adam Well they did.