What Ever Happened to Baby Jane

0:23 Unknown Good evening and welcome to Horror.

0:24 Lee I'm Lee.

0:25 Chris I'm Chris.

0:27 Adam And I'm writing a letter to daddy.

0:29 Lee Oh.

0:32 Chris In in that voice.

0:33 Adam Yes.

0:35 Lee Um, yes, uh, for anyone who's unaware, we are here to cover the 1962 Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.

0:43 Chris Um, how do we all sound so upbeat currently?

0:47 Lee Oh, because I watched it two weeks ago.

0:48 Chris Ah.

0:53 Chris Just me that shell-shocked currently then.

0:56 Adam Have you literally just come off it, Chris?

0:58 Chris Just literally about 10 minutes ago. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, I'm glad I didn't with this one, because, I mean, not wishing to spoil it, but I loved this film so much more than I thought I was going to. I was just.

1:41 Adam Yeah.

1:53 Lee But, yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to record straight after it.

1:54 Lee Because looking back now, having it up on IMDB and seeing the trailer for it, it just keeps reminding me how amazing it was, but yeah, at the time, it's so dark.

2:08 Chris However, after the first two minutes, I'm I'm impressed that you got past that that first scene where the singing is going on and.

2:16 Chris I was like, will he turn it off at this point? Will he make it?

2:20 Adam What, that was the weirdest thing is, I'd never I'd never realized, I mean, obviously, I've seen it, I've saw it years ago.

2:27 Adam But and like it was a favorite, you know, I just I genuinely enjoyed it, it was Claire's first time seeing it, but like I was familiar with it.

2:35 Adam But reading about it afterwards, um, that song.

2:40 Adam He's specially written for the film.

2:42 Adam And it is so perfect to that sort of mokish, horrible sort of like two fingers down your throat, sort of Shirley Temple sort of Yeah, cutey, oh God, it's yeah, it was fucking horrendous. Oh, yeah. So.

3:22 Lee Oh, yeah.

3:22 Chris Yeah.

3:24 Adam Yeah.

3:33 Chris Yeah.

3:38 Lee It is, it is, it's it is painful to watch.

3:42 Chris Mm.

3:43 Lee Oh, and it only gets worse when she does it when she's older as well.

3:47 Lee But I just.

3:47 Chris Yeah.

3:49 Lee I mean, it's got to be said right up top, there's no other way to describe it.

3:54 Lee The performance of Bette Davis in this is quite possibly the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my entire life.

4:02 Lee She is so horrendously awful and she plays it so utterly unbelievably and yeah, it's unbelievable.

4:10 Adam Yeah.

4:14 Lee Absolutely.

4:15 Lee And the problem is, I so I I watch lots of old films, but I do, you know, we always say it, you always make an allowance, don't you?

4:26 Lee So you go, they were an actor in the 50s, it's very different to actors now, it was a very different time, they didn't have the schooling, it wasn't.

4:31 Lee So you wouldn't put someone's performance from the 60s, from the 50s against now.

4:36 Lee The performance in this blow anything I've seen in the last 20 years out of the water.

4:41 Lee It is so fucking good from everybody in it.

4:44 Chris Mm.

4:45 Adam Yeah.

4:46 Adam Well, because I mean, that's the thing is you are talking two proper movie stars, you know, it's not sort of because, because I think there's a lot to be said when it's like, you know, I I like a theater actor when they go on to, you know.

5:02 Adam A lot of people where they've got a theater background, it's really, you know, they come across really amazingly.

5:05 Adam But yeah, Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, it was they were, you know, they were big.

5:15 Lee Yeah.

5:16 Adam The biggest thing at the time.

5:17 Adam stars and this is kind of like this is the point where they were, um.

5:23 Adam You know, this was the point where that sort of star had started to fade essentially, because I mean, they were sort of like big through the 30s and 40s.

5:33 Adam 50s and the usual sort of story is obviously, it's like an actress actress gets older and starts getting less roles or starts getting less flattering roles or starts getting less.

5:40 Chris Mm, yeah.

5:41 Adam interesting roles or whatever like that. And, you know, so I think the.

5:46 Adam they just grasp it with both hands and particularly Bette Davis is just like because it is not a flattering performance in any way, shape or form.

5:52 Adam But she is so fucking good in it.

5:56 Adam And.

5:58 Lee She gives it everything.

5:58 Lee Absolutely everything to be the most.

6:02 Lee obnoxious, awful human being I've ever seen, it's just brilliant.

6:10 Adam See, I think weirdly enough, I've always found it there is there is a lot of there's a lot of humor in it.

6:16 Adam But it.

6:18 Adam like the horrific stuff is fucking horrific.

6:23 Adam You know, By the way, spoilers and swearing.

6:25 Lee Oh yeah, yeah, well done.

6:26 Adam You know.

6:27 Adam Um, but when she's like, when she's the sort of just the that cruelty that she's sort of building on.

6:35 Adam But then it's like, you've got the the your bird flew away.

6:39 Adam Then she serves her the bird for dinner.

6:42 Lee Yeah.

6:42 Adam Then she doesn't want to eat the next dinner because she's convinced it was something horrible and then it's not.

6:47 Adam And then the rat, and it's like just that sort of horrific sort of mind game thing going on.

6:53 Adam But I think and the real thing that gets you though, is that fucking gut punch at the end.

6:58 Lee Yes.

7:00 Adam Where it's like, holy shit, she's made her this.

7:03 Chris didn't need to be, yeah.

7:06 Lee Yeah.

7:07 Chris Yeah.

7:08 Lee I couldn't believe that.

7:10 Chris No, I I did not I didn't see it coming.

7:11 Lee Wait, what?

7:12 Chris Yeah.

7:13 Lee I've never heard this twist spoiler.

7:15 Chris Yeah.

7:17 Adam It's it's incredible, isn't it? Because weirdly enough, it's it's almost to a certain extent, it's only when I put the DVD back in and I'm like I I get to that because obviously, wonderfully.

7:25 Adam So they have um they have younger actors playing them as children and then the point where it's the where Blanche has become a star and Jane is.

7:34 Adam basically flying on her coattails out of loyalty.

7:37 Chris Mm.

7:38 Adam is they don't show you them at that point because people know.

7:44 Adam A no what Joan Crawford and Bette Davis look like at that point.

7:49 Adam They do show old films of theirs, like they use old clips from their from old films.

7:52 Adam But so that opening sequence, you don't see them in the car, you don't see their faces and it feels, oh, well, that's a technical thing because obviously they can't portray themselves.

8:02 Adam younger.

8:03 Adam And then you realize that actually you've been you've been sucker by what you've spotted is like a technical issue.

8:04 Chris Yeah, yeah.

8:09 Adam But it actually, you know, you suddenly go, holy shit, yeah, they didn't see.

8:13 Adam what happened at the start.

8:15 Adam You just see two people in a car, but it's very non-descript and everything and it's sort of, yeah, just a.

8:22 Chris They lead you down that path that's.

8:24 Chris It's such a good fucking.

8:25 Chris Slight of hand.

8:26 Adam Yeah.

8:27 Adam It kind of it because it almost is like, oh, we've put that in there and you're going, oh, well, they've done that because it's a limitation.

8:32 Adam And then actually it's like, no, you've been.

8:36 Adam You didn't you you definitely I haven't seen that coming.

8:38 Lee planned from from like scene one, just.

8:42 Lee Epic.

8:43 Adam It's Yeah.

8:44 Lee So good.

8:45 Lee But like you said, I had the same as you had it, like I said, it's it was a very dark film, I did laugh most of the way through it.

8:52 Lee Just because it's it's it's so brilliant and I was just taken in by.

8:57 Lee And even the cruelty, it's so over the top.

9:00 Lee It is.

9:00 Chris It is, it's kind of reaches that absurdity level, you know.

9:05 Chris And yet still believable enough that it could possibly yeah, go that way.

9:10 Adam Yeah, it's genuine Gothic.

9:11 Chris Yeah, yeah.

9:12 Adam It's not in not in terms of castles or.

9:15 Adam But it is it is that level of sort of macabre.

9:19 Chris Yeah, yeah.

9:20 Adam Um, but I also think and obviously, and so, I mean.

9:24 Adam I don't know sort of your awareness of it, but basically Joan Crawford and Bette Davis hated each other's fucking guts.

9:31 Adam And that had been a rivalry that had been going since like before.

9:37 Lee What before?

9:38 Adam Yeah.

9:39 Chris All right.

9:40 Adam They they basically.

9:41 Lee Where did that come from?

9:42 Chris I didn't know that.

9:43 Adam Yeah.

9:43 Chris Basically. I mean that might that might explain it.

9:46 Adam It does, it does explain a lot. But yeah, so.

9:49 Chris Okay, that's that's how you make a great film.

9:51 Adam Yeah.

9:52 Adam But I mean, I think what it was is so, um, where are we? Yeah, so it was basically in the 1930s, they sort of like were both stars. They didn't get on and a lot of people put it down to the fact that there was a an actor called Francho Tone, who was in the film Dangerous with Bette Davis.

10:05 Adam She fell for him but he ended up marrying Joan Crawford and so there's a lot of but before that they were already a bit sort of like, you know, sort of rival stars basically.

10:12 Adam And they would often sort of snipe at each other in the press and in person and stuff like that.

10:20 Adam I've got this amazing quote from Bette Davis, one of the one of the things she said was that Joan Crawford slept with every male star at MGM except Lassie.

10:29 Lee Oh.

10:30 Adam And sort of things like that, but the weird thing is is that Bette Davis was really obvious.

10:33 Adam In the in the same sort of way that Joan is.

10:38 Lee Yeah.

10:39 Adam But Joan Crawford actually was a bit cruler and actually had a sort of like.

10:42 Adam So she was sort of like, for example, Bette Davis was nominated for an Oscar for this.

10:48 Adam Now, um, Joan Crawford was an Oscar winner, Bette Davis won an Oscar had two best actress Oscars.

10:54 Adam And she was up for the best actress for this, Joan Crawford actively campaigned against Bette Davis getting the Oscar.

11:01 Adam Better than that.

11:02 Adam If you want shady shit.

11:04 Adam Listen to this.

11:05 Adam On the night, um, Bette Davis doesn't win.

11:10 Adam I think it was Ann Bancroft won.

11:12 Adam Couldn't make the ceremony.

11:13 Adam So Joan Crawford accepted the award on her behalf.

11:20 Adam And so the Oscar photos for that night are Joan Crawford standing there with the best actress Oscar.

11:25 Lee Oh.

11:26 Adam And it's just like and you see that sort of snippy sort of you know.

11:31 Chris That that's a proper counter though, isn't it?

11:33 Chris That's why.

11:34 Adam And it wasn't it wasn't like an unknown thing.

11:38 Adam Everyone knew they couldn't stand each other.

11:40 Lee Yeah.

11:41 Adam And so kind of the film like they they like they were both sort of getting to the doldrums of their careers as it were.

11:49 Adam And Joan Crawford basically wanted uh got involved with the director Robert Aldridge and wanted to make Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.

11:58 Adam And so she reached out to Bette Davis and Bette Davis agreed on the basis that she got the she got the Baby Jane part.

12:05 Adam Because then it's.

12:06 Adam She's got the name in the.

12:08 Adam What was it the two things she said it was like something like because again, I think Joan Crawford was just fucking hilarious, Um, sorry, Bette Davis was just hilarious.

12:17 Adam because she was like, yeah, I accepted it because uh, I needed the money.

12:21 Adam And uh, you know, and sort of stuff like that.

12:22 Adam But also she said, and also once Robert Aldridge had told me he wasn't sleeping with Joan Crawford, so I knew that I wouldn't just be I wouldn't get any closeups.

12:30 Adam And stuff like that and um, so yeah, but so that was kind of the selling point of the film.

12:36 Adam Was like, oh, there's these two stars who you know.

12:38 Chris Yeah, sure do.

12:40 Adam I've spent the last 30 years tearing lumps out of each other.

12:44 Adam Now we get to see him do it on screen.

12:47 Adam Godzilla versus Kong, you know.

12:49 Chris I mean, that is arguably a very good selling point.

12:53 Adam Well, and apparently, so during the during the the making of the film, um, apparently Bett got a bit handsy.

13:00 Adam And was like, you know, because there is a slap in there where you're like.

13:03 Adam That is not, you know, and there's not and there's lots of points where.

13:05 Chris Yeah.

13:08 Adam basically they've had to do it where Joan Crawford is reacting to Bette Davis, but they're not in the same shot.

13:14 Adam I think because they were like, no, better keep them apart.

13:15 Chris You can't, yeah.

13:17 Adam But but even.

13:18 Adam Even fabulous things like this, so Joan Crawford was on the board of directors of Pepsi.

13:23 Adam So Bette Davis got a Coca-Cola machine installed outside her dressing room so that the cast and crew could drink Coca-Cola.

13:27 Adam And it was just wonderfully petty.

13:30 Adam Um, and the bit where she's hauling, um, where Jane is hauling Blanche around the floor.

13:37 Adam Um, Joan Crawford got a load of weights sewn into her clothes so it would put.

13:42 Chris Ah.

13:43 Adam fucking Bette Davis's back out.

13:46 Adam And it's like, you know, it's mental, you know.

13:46 Lee Oh.

13:50 Chris I'll tell you what.

13:50 Chris If if they'd made a, you know, behind the scenes documentary of this.

13:54 Lee It needs to be a producer film.

13:57 Adam Well, this is the thing, there is a TV anthology series called Feud.

14:02 Adam And the first series is Bett and Joan with Susan Sarandon as Bette Davis and Jessica Lange as Joan Crawford.

14:09 Adam And it's the guy, uh, Ryan Murphy, who did American Horror Story.

14:13 Adam So he's got pedigree.

14:15 Adam Um, I I've never seen it, I just don't think it was on any channel that I was I had access to at the time.

14:22 Adam Yeah. But I think it's definitely probably worth seeking out because you know, I think.

14:27 Adam Because it basically details the the making of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane and it's sort of, yeah.

14:33 Adam So it's all sort of like in there.

14:37 Adam Um, but obviously, yeah, and and then.

14:42 Adam It was a massive fucking hit.

14:44 Chris But like, so, all right, how have I not heard of it before?

14:48 Chris And Lee, did you say you had heard of it? I mean, you you said you had it like on the verge of.

14:54 Lee So I I've heard of it as one of those like great films like Citizen Kane and that kind you need to see.

15:02 Lee Uh, yeah, and Jennifer loves it.

15:04 Chris Okay, yeah.

15:05 Lee So it was one of those when I said I'd never watched it, she was like, I've definitely made you watch it at least three times.

15:11 Lee I was like, you haven't.

15:12 Lee She said, I've seen it, like I never go that long without seeing it, I must have made you watch it at some point.

15:17 Lee I was like, no, you definitely haven't.

15:19 Lee Um, yeah, and we started watching it and I was like, why have you never made me watch this?

15:23 Adam Yeah.

15:25 Adam Because again, because again, it's just in that sort of it's in that thing like you were saying, it's it's an older movie, but fuck me, it's.

15:33 Chris It holds up.

15:34 Adam And and here's the shocker as well, and this is probably stun you.

15:38 Adam It's two and a half hours long.

15:40 Lee Yes.

15:40 Lee And it really does not feel it.

15:43 Adam Because you think like an older film.

15:47 Adam You're expecting like because it's it's such a rarity to see a film an older film at that sort of a length.

15:53 Adam Especially like a big well, a successful production because it was actually quite a low budget film really.

15:59 Adam It was sort of like.

16:01 Adam You know, the the whole point was, oh, we'll bang all this together, we'll get these two together and they'll tear lumps out of each other.

16:08 Adam And then it's suddenly just it and it's better than that.

16:11 Adam It's better than that should be, Robert Aldridge doesn't piss about.

16:15 Adam He makes a fucking amazing film.

16:17 Adam Everyone in it is brilliant.

16:19 Adam And yeah, and it ended up making like it's box office back in under a month, it was that successful.

16:27 Adam And yeah, and like Robert Aldridge did like the Dirty Dozen and the Killin Sisters and Jules and Kiss Me Deadly and, you know, like.

16:33 Adam He did a lot a lot of great films.

16:36 Adam But this is, you know, this is just a amazing, I think.

16:41 Adam And the but the weird thing is is that there's certain touches in it that make it modern.

16:46 Adam that are actually because of the low budget.

16:48 Adam Like, whenever you see Jane driving around LA.

16:52 Adam Usually what you'd do in Hollywood like productions at that point, it would always be back projection.

16:57 Adam You know, you get the actor sat in the car and.

16:59 Chris Yeah, yeah.

17:00 Adam control it more and everything else and it and it always looks shitty and false.

17:02 Chris Yeah.

17:03 Adam But it was just the way it was done.

17:05 Adam With this, they couldn't afford to do back projection, the budget was too small.

17:11 Adam So when you see her driving around.

17:14 Adam It's the cameraman's in the back seat or on the bonnet.

17:20 Chris Yeah.

17:21 Adam Like and and let's face it, she's already an extraordinary looking figure.

17:26 Lee Yes.

17:26 Adam And that must have been like quite a stir that there's like this sort of like pale faced doll faced lunatic with a guy on the front of her car driving up and down like Sunset Boulevard or whatever.

17:36 Adam And yeah, it's sort of and that was another thing as well.

17:41 Adam is um Bette Davis did her own makeup or like devised her own makeup.

17:47 Lee Did she really?

17:48 Lee It looks so unhinged.

17:50 Lee It's perfect.

17:50 Adam It's so unhinged.

17:52 Adam And literally everyone said that to her, like the director and her because her daughters in it, you know, the next door neighbor, the the girl that.

18:00 Adam Because that next door neighbor, Christ on a bike, that woman, you're just like a catalyst for every wrong thing.

18:06 Adam That poor unknowing woman.

18:08 Adam But her daughter, that's Bette Davis's daughter.

18:10 Adam And everyone's like, you've gone way too far with this.

18:13 Adam But then when they sort of saw it on screen and in context and everything.

18:18 Adam And Bette Davis had said she wanted it to look like women she'd seen in LA, who looked like they didn't clean their makeup off, they just put more on, like every day.

18:28 Lee I think.

18:28 Lee He's exactly what it looks like.

18:32 Adam It it does, it's really.

18:34 Adam And yeah, again, there's I think everyone's just powered into this and feels rejuvenated from it.

18:41 Adam And I have to put a big, big fucking underline on Victor Buono who plays Edwin Flag, um, who obviously.

18:47 Lee Yes.

18:50 Adam I I this actually I'm currently going through a uh 1966 Batman rewatch because he was King Tut.

19:00 Lee Mm.

19:00 Adam Okay, but he was the villain King Tut in those.

19:03 Adam And I mean, he's fucking amazing in those Batman episodes.

19:07 Adam But he is so good in this and so that's part of the I mean, like him and his mom.

19:12 Adam as well because that that actress who's I think she's actually Australian, but she is so sort of like perfect.

19:18 Adam I'll be your secretary, you know.

19:22 Adam And he's like he's this sort of like enormous mummy's boy who's like.

19:28 Lee I loved them, too.

19:30 Lee Again, it was like and I I hadn't forgotten, but you do because you focus so much on Crawford and Davis.

19:39 Lee And then when I opened the IMDB and I saw those two on there, I was like, God, I've forgotten how much I enjoyed their performance as well.

19:45 Lee They just yeah.

19:48 Adam And that's.

19:48 Lee I mean.

19:49 Lee It's you mean you've got to step up, haven't you if you're performing in scenes with those two like, Jesus.

19:55 Adam Yeah.

19:56 Adam Absolutely.

19:57 Adam And I think well Victor Buono was nominated for best supporting actor for this.

20:02 Lee Oh, was he on the on the way surprise.

20:05 Adam Well, I think this was like his first film, so that was that was probably another way that Joan Crawford was that her nose put out a joint.

20:10 Adam It's like, hang on, so this this who's never been in anything, he's getting best support and she's getting best you get fucked.

20:20 Adam But um, also he was.

20:23 Adam um, I was listening to it in the week, he did um, because I mean, he he's in um, he's in a really good episode of um.

20:36 Adam the uh, what was it bloody called? Awesome Wells's great mysteries, who was a really good about that one.

20:42 Adam Um, but he obviously, he did sort of like he did a lot of sort of not slasher films, but sort of films like The Strangler and The Mad Butcher.

20:53 Adam And obviously, he's a big imposing figure.

20:57 Adam But he is so pathetic in this, that it's just.

21:02 Adam But he I mean, he's like, so he's 6'4 and 28 stone. You know, he's fucking enormous.

21:09 Lee Wow.

21:10 Adam But I've been listening to it, he did a comedy album called Heavy in 1971.

21:15 Adam And the opening track is just, I'm Victor Buono and I'm fat, not big boned like like friends will try and tell me, but fat.

21:25 Adam And it's just like sort of comic performance poetry about being a fat git, basically.

21:32 Adam But it was, you know, that was just a genuinely little sort of thing.

21:35 Adam And uh yeah, uh Marjorie Bennett who plays his mom.

21:41 Adam Yeah.

21:42 Adam She's just so good because me and Claire were both like, oh, she's got to be.

21:45 Adam She's got to be genuine cockney.

21:47 Adam And then we looked and it was Australian.

21:49 Adam It's like, oh, cockney by the sea.

21:51 Adam That's what.

21:52 Lee Yeah, I was taken.

21:53 Adam That's what.

21:53 Lee I was taken him by her accent.

21:54 Lee Absolutely as well, so yeah, it was great.

22:00 Adam Um, and um.

22:02 Adam But yeah, I mean and and although there are a lot of people in it.

22:04 Adam I mean, this could be this could be a stage play.

22:09 Lee Yeah.

22:10 Chris Yeah.

22:11 Adam You know, there's only to a certain extent, there's only really sort of like six main characters maybe.

22:17 Adam You know, everything else is kind of incidental.

22:19 Adam Also, um.

22:21 Chris But it's all about the relationships.

22:23 Adam Yeah, well done the LAPD.

22:27 Adam You're going to you're going to have dinner, you're going to have breakfast, not checking out, well, there's a car park funny there and uh, oh yeah, we're looking for these two missing women, there's a woman dressed as Annabelle on the freaking beach.

22:37 Chris I mean, maybe that's not too unusual.

22:38 Adam Oh, possibly.

22:39 Adam Who knows.

22:40 Chris We see all films, yeah.

22:42 Adam But I think that I mean, like I say, I think they're just both so good in it and I mean, it's it's feels redundant to say.

22:53 Adam But Claire said something very very true.

22:56 Adam And I think it really emphasizes towards the end when Jane.

23:01 Adam I mean, she's she's pretty much on the edge the whole way through.

23:06 Adam But when she finally it's that last sort of fugue state and everything else like that.

23:11 Adam It's not it's not mad, it's arrested.

23:15 Adam She's still like a seven-year-old.

23:19 Lee Yeah.

23:20 Chris Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:20 Adam That's what it boils down to.

23:22 Adam And actually, there's a lovely bit because she's great as well.

23:24 Adam Elvira, the um the maid.

23:27 Lee voice very good.

23:28 Adam Like the the housekeeper.

23:30 Adam But just that bit where she confronts her and it's like, no, you're going to have to grow up.

23:37 Lee Yeah.

23:37 Adam You know, she she knows what the problem is, she's like, no, you're going to have to grow up and be an adult and deal with these things because you can't treat people like this.

23:42 Adam And, you know, it's.

23:44 Adam And um.

23:45 Chris I suppose that does seem to happen to child stars.

23:50 Adam I I think to be honest.

23:52 Chris They do get arrested.

23:52 Adam I think it's fame.

23:55 Adam Look at Ossie Osbourne.

23:56 Chris Yeah, yeah.

23:57 Adam Bless him.

23:58 Adam Ossie Osbourne was still a 22-year-old blood from from the.

24:02 Chris for a man, that's that's pretty young still, really.

24:05 Chris Most have grown up.

24:06 Adam Yeah that's where he was.

24:07 Adam Right up until Black Sabbath.

24:09 Adam He was just, you know.

24:10 Adam He that's when the that's when the fame and particularly when the money came in.

24:13 Chris Yeah.

24:14 Adam And yeah, he was stuck at he was just a amiable 22-year-old metaller from Brum.

24:20 Adam You know.

24:22 Adam And unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately Jane was a spoiled monster.

24:26 Adam And stayed there.

24:28 Adam And I also think it's it's it's a very, I think it's one of those things as well where it's a very telling sort of there's there's a lot of cynicism in it.

24:35 Adam But a healthy cynicism where it's like, no, this is the movie industry.

24:40 Chris Yeah.

24:41 Adam And this is, you know, this is like, well, look, she's she's the big star.

24:45 Adam So we have to do what she says even though there's her sister's fucking talentless.

24:51 Adam But and it's that whole, yeah, just sort of.

24:54 Lee and nepotism that's just unavoidable to some degree.

25:00 Adam Yeah.

25:01 Adam But I mean, I think.

25:03 Adam And also, I mean, if you, um, if you ever see it there's the clips from psycho bitches that are up online of Francis Barber and Mark Gatiss playing, um.

25:12 Adam Crawford and Davis.

25:15 Lee Brilliantly.

25:17 Adam They are so good, so fucking spot on.

25:21 Adam And even there's uh, that I because I think that was the reason I first watched it is there's a uh Shakespeare Sister did the song Goodbye Cruel World and the start of that is them arguing.

25:34 Adam And Marcella Detroit going, well, you couldn't do these things to me if I wasn't behind this if I wasn't trapped behind this guitar.

25:40 Adam And she just turned around and go, but you are Marcella, you are.

25:43 Adam And it was like, and then I read somewhere, it was like, oh, that's whatever happened to Baby Jane.

25:46 Adam And that's I think that was the first prompt of me watching it and it was like, yeah, well, well done ladies because that is a fucking amazing film to have.

25:52 Adam Because also weirdly enough, I think the other thing was the only other thing I'd heard about it was my mom who has a very good line in sort of recommending things with like genuinely horrific things in them.

26:01 Adam telling me like, oh yeah, no, it's a film where she serves her pet bird to her because she's trying to torment her and it's like, fucking hell, man.

26:07 Chris Yeah, yeah.

26:10 Adam It's a bit strong when you're.

26:13 Lee And it is, and that's the thing, after the bird has happened, as soon as she says, by the way, there's rats in the cellar.

26:21 Lee And it is, it's that long drawn out of her just looking at the dish going.

26:23 Lee I I know and and we know it's under there as well and you go.

26:26 Lee Maybe it's not, maybe it's, oh yeah, no, it's it's definitely.

26:28 Lee A giant dead rat.

26:30 Adam Because it's that classic bully thing as well because obviously there's the dinner in the middle where she's not looked under it, she's too freaked and she's too what.

26:40 Adam And then she just sits there and it's just it's just chops and she's just eating one in front of her.

26:45 Adam And yeah, it's just oh man, it's just such a terrific film.

26:49 Adam And so of.

26:53 Adam And I do genuinely think it definitely stands in in horror.

26:56 Adam I think it's.

26:57 Lee Yes.

26:58 Chris Yeah.

26:59 Lee I was I was ready to question it in my mind before we started watching it because I was like, it's just about two women who share a house.

27:05 Lee They're di to one another.

27:06 Lee I don't think it's horror.

27:08 Chris Yeah.

27:09 Lee But I started watching.

27:10 Lee I was like, no.

27:11 Chris It does and and especially the end really solidifies just the whole thing as like, oh, that is I mean, it's bordering on it's like requium sort of territory, isn't it?

27:18 Chris Proper like, oh, what's going on there?

27:19 Adam Well, because it's you you realize that in in essence.

27:22 Adam Blanche has not brought it on herself.

27:25 Adam That's that's not.

27:26 Adam But she's obviously calling her making.

27:27 Chris Yeah, yeah.

27:29 Adam You've sort of built this, you've built the monster, you know, and it's sort of.

27:33 Chris Yeah.

27:34 Chris You think what should have been good really, isn't it? You surely the whole point of acting and being a star.

27:38 Chris that should all be great and yet the whole thing to just be so inside out.

27:42 Adam Yeah, I think again, I think that's part of the cynicism.

27:45 Adam It is like, this is this is the this is the the this is the underbelly, all these stars that you wanted, you know.

27:49 Chris Yeah.

27:52 Chris see golden, yeah.

27:55 Adam And actually, they're probably quite and you know.

27:58 Adam I mean, to a to a greater or lesser extent, both Joan Crawford and Bette Davis were pretty monstrous in real life in certain ways, you know.

28:04 Lee Yeah.

28:04 Adam And but so obviously this does really well, um, and so both.

28:12 Adam both of them sort of rejuvenates their careers and both of them go on and do sort of horror films.

28:15 Adam And um, Joan Crawford did.

28:18 Adam Um, they both worked for Hammer.

28:20 Chris Huh.

28:21 Adam Joan Crawford's in the film Trog, which I admit, I've never seen.

28:24 Lee No.

28:25 Adam Um, and then uh, Bette Davis in The Nanny and The Anniversary.

28:30 Adam Um, one of those is in, I think that's one of those is in that Hammer box you've got, isn't it, Lee?

28:33 Lee Yes, The Nanny is in it.

28:34 Adam Um.

28:35 Lee And also I've got a I've got to mention again, Bette Davis in The Watcher in the Woods from 1980.

28:40 Lee What a excellent out and out horror that was, isn't it?

28:43 Lee I think as well God, that's terrifying.

28:45 Adam And and that's the thing is I think both of them, that wasn't really.

28:49 Adam It certainly wasn't their genre, you know.

28:51 Adam That wasn't where.

28:53 Adam They were sort of but um and and like Joan Crawford ended up working with.

28:56 Adam William Castle on a couple of films.

29:00 Adam Um, what was she, uh, Berserk, uh, no, I saw what you did and Straight Jacket, which is written by Robert Block.

29:05 Adam So we're talking proper horror pedigree there and films like Berserk and things like that.

29:10 Adam But I mean, and but I mean, she died in 77, um, but Bette Davis went all the way to 1989.

29:18 Adam So she was she did a lot more post.

29:20 Adam Um, another recommendation I would say is Burnt Offerings with Ollie Reed and um Karen Black.

29:25 Adam Fucking great film that is.

29:27 Lee Yeah.

29:28 Adam And.

29:28 Lee You know what, I've got it somewhere and I've tried to watch it and I think I got about 15 minutes in and then I found it a bit uncomfortable.

29:34 Lee And I was like, I'm going to have to come back to this when I'm in the mood.

29:36 Lee And I don't think I ever went back.

29:38 Adam Her last film, um, is a Larry Cohen film called Wicked Stepmother, which apparently is really good.

29:44 Adam So, again, might have to might have to check that out.

29:48 Adam But yeah, I mean, like you say, there's The Watcher in the Woods, Return from Witch Mountain, she did, you know, they both of them sort of.

29:56 Adam they realized that.

29:57 Adam And actually Joan Crawford's in that really good Night Gallery segment.

30:02 Adam Uh, where it's the woman who um has new corneas transplanted.

30:06 Lee Oh.

30:08 Chris Yeah.

30:09 Adam Yeah, and um, and again, very much the sort of role of Uber bitch, you know.

30:15 Adam She's not.

30:17 Adam She's not a pleasant character in that.

30:18 Adam So, you know, it's um.

30:21 Adam Yeah.

30:22 Adam But um.

30:25 Adam Yeah, all in all.

30:27 Adam This is a thorough recommend.

30:30 Adam It's it's I put it in that same sort of place as like.

30:33 Adam Because I think there's there's been a few sort of pastiches and things like that.

30:36 Adam But.

30:37 Adam It's not.

30:38 Adam And actually, the the other one that did.

30:40 Adam I think that was when my mom was telling me what it was.

30:43 Adam was um French and Saunders did it.

30:44 Lee Oh.

30:45 Lee I was thinking.

30:46 Lee I rewatched all of French and Saunders about a year and a half ago and part of me was like, they definitely did, I'm sure they did this.

30:52 Adam Yeah.

30:52 Adam They they they did that because they because a lot of it they did like stuff like Science of the Lambs and the Exorcist as well.

30:55 Adam But yeah, they definitely did whatever happened to Baby Jane because they had to because again, that was like.

30:59 Adam watching it with watching it with my family and like, what what is this meant to be?

31:03 Lee Yeah.

31:05 Adam Because it's because again, done like all their film parodies was done so well.

31:08 Adam And so true to the look of it.

31:10 Adam And you just like, no idea what this is.

31:12 Adam And then yeah.

31:16 Lee Yeah.

31:18 Lee Fantastic.

31:18 Lee Yeah, I I just as I said, I I yeah, I I do I appreciate old films.

31:25 Lee But as I say, the majority of time you do have to give it that kind of handicap to begin with and this didn't need in.

31:33 Lee And did you feel the same, Chris, like, it felt modern and.

31:36 Chris Yeah, absolutely.

31:39 Lee brilliant and yeah, I just I love the fact that they were they say big, beautiful stars.

31:45 Lee And then they were like, oh, now I'm a bit older, I'm going to play a horrible old bitch. They really, really were.

31:54 Chris Yeah.

31:56 Adam And and that's the thing is I don't think anyone, you know, it's neither of them are flattering roles.

32:03 Lee No.

32:04 Adam So, you know.

32:05 Adam And in fact, that's the wonderful thing with it, I don't think there's there's it's a very foble thing, the nearest you get to a neutral person is the neighbor.

32:13 Lee Yeah.

32:13 Adam And she is Andy Harris levels of, you're really, you really don't know how bad you're making this for that woman trapped in that house by just keeping on mate.

32:28 Lee Yeah.

32:31 Lee Awful.

32:32 Lee What a what an amazing film.

32:35 Lee Uh, yes, so anybody out there who like me has always thought, oh, it's probably one of those old classics that doesn't hold up.

32:40 Lee Yeah, go out and watch it because it is genuinely incredible.

32:47 Lee And I saying the the runtime just buzzes by so fast.

32:52 Adam Exactly.

32:53 Adam Because that was the thing is when I when I dug it out and I was look because I was going to watch it like one night and it was like, oh, it was a bit late now.

32:58 Adam Because I looked at it, I was like, I don't remember it being that long.

33:01 Adam And I was a bit worried to be honest.

33:03 Adam Because I was like.

33:04 Adam But no, it just yeah, just raps along.

33:08 Lee Yeah.

33:09 Lee Absolutely outstanding.

33:10 Lee Um, so go and check that out.

33:12 Lee We'll be back in a fortnight's time for what we've been watching, so no homework to catch up on this time, people.

33:18 Lee Uh, yeah, and we'll see you in a fortnight's time, I'm going to go watch Watcher in the Woods.

33:22 Lee I love I'm going to go watch Watcher in the Woods again, so I haven't seen it in years and I love that as a kid.

33:28 Lee It's one of those over and over again.

33:29 Adam Watcher in the Woods, isn't it?

33:31 Lee Sorry.

33:32 Chris Yes, you said that thing.

33:34 Adam Yeah.

33:34 Lee It's full on horror, it's horrific and horrible.

33:37 Adam That's what I think.

33:37 Adam Because I've never seen it.

33:39 Adam So I'm thinking it might be on Disney Plus, I might have to give it a watch.

33:42 Lee Oh, yeah, if it is, go and find it.

33:45 Lee I loved it as a kid, it's so creepy and horrible.

33:48 Adam Nice.

33:49 Lee Excellent, right.

33:50 Lee So.

33:51 Lee Thanks ever so much for listening, everybody.

33:52 Lee Oh, go and check out, Chris has been working on the website.

33:56 Chris Yes.

33:57 Lee so hard, it is absolutely out of this world what he's managed to do.

34:02 Chris Thank you.

34:03 Chris See what you can find on there.

34:06 Lee I I know you keep telling us the new stuff.

34:07 Lee But I like just going and clicking on all the buttons and seeing and finding, I was saying if I was a listener, I would be all, I'd be like, right, who's my favorite actor, pull up all of their episodes or my favorite franchise.

34:16 Lee Yeah, and just having all that at your fingertips now is.

34:19 Lee Oh, it makes it so much more.

34:22 Adam It's a phenomenal job, Chris.

34:23 Chris I'm not stopping.

34:24 Lee Yes, absolutely.

34:24 Adam Well, yeah, but I realized just how much we've got in there now that can be cross-referenced.

34:28 Adam It's like, yeah, that's actually a really good database full of information.

34:30 Adam You know, most of it Adam has unearthed.

34:34 Adam So, yeah.

34:35 Adam It shows the hard work you've put in.

34:37 Adam By the power of Google.

34:39 Adam And the excellent insights.

34:40 Adam Yeah.

34:41 Adam No.

34:41 Adam It's really good.

34:42 Lee Yeah, yeah, it I've I've just blown away, but honestly, I don't think I've seen a website better than that.

34:48 Lee So I'm absolutely that amazed by it.

34:51 Lee So, well done, Chris.

34:52 Lee Yes.

34:53 Lee Yeah, phenomenal job, excellent.

34:56 Lee Um, yes.

34:57 Lee So go and have a play on the website, go and listen to some old back episodes and we'll see you in a Fortnite's time for what we've been watching.

35:01 Lee Good night.

35:02 Chris Good night.

35:03 Adam Good night.

35:04 Lee Thanks, Chris.