Least Haunted

0:23 Lee Good evening, and welcome to Horror.

0:25 Lee I'm Lee.

0:26 Chris I'm Chris.

0:28 Adam I'm Dr. Adam Thomas.

0:30 Unknown Ha ha.

0:31 Lee And we are here this evening for something totally new and different, not to celebrate anything specific, but just because we thought it would be something a bit different and a bit fun.

0:44 Lee obviously we cover horror movies endlessly and discuss ghosts and the supernatural and.

0:52 Lee And I don't know if we've ever actually addressed on the podcast, our beliefs or lack of or interest in the supernatural.

1:43 Lee so I thought it might just be nice to have a bit of a, an open, you know, a bit of a, an open chat about it.

1:50 Lee yeah, and discuss any interesting supernatural experiences we've had or generally, I say, just what our opinions are of the supernatural in general.

2:01 Adam Yeah.

2:02 Adam I thought it was a really good idea because yeah, it is something we don't really, yeah, we don't really have time for in a weird way with, we're so busy talking about the films or whatever, so.

2:17 Adam just to assure all listeners, I have got with me, official PKE meter.

2:24 Chris We are not messing around.

2:27 Adam Looks like we're clear for ghosts.

2:29 Lee Excellent, good, thank you for checking.

2:31 Lee That is probably about as accurate as the shit I was watching a mute the other day on Most Haunted or whatever the fuck I was watching.

2:38 Lee Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

3:20 Lee there won't be any spoilers because we're not discussing a film, there will be swearing.

3:25 Lee I'm warning you now, it's going to happen.

3:28 Lee

3:29 Unknown

3:30 Lee So, Adam, let's start with you, are you a believer, are you skeptic, how do you feel?

3:38 Adam I am, I think my, I'll give you my background on it, basically, basically, I'm a skeptic.

3:44 Adam Because, you know, I live in a world that or certainly I perceive the world mostly through things that are factual or provable or so on and so forth.

4:00 Adam And there doesn't say, there's never been anything scientifically proven.

4:07 Adam to put but to quote Alan Moore, it's sort of yeah, but the whole point of sort of, you know, realism.

4:19 Adam Is that it does have boundaries.

4:21 Adam Because.

4:22 Adam Any system has boundaries and there probably is room.

4:25 Adam Even if it's just in terms of intellectual thought to go outside those boundaries.

4:30 Adam But in essence, I'm skeptical because I don't think.

4:37 Adam I think there's something happening that people are experiencing that we don't have an explanation for.

4:44 Adam And whether we will, we don't know and you would think that, you know, I by now, like we're so fucking advanced, you know.

5:00 Adam It's.

5:01 Adam but.

5:02 Adam Yeah, I just, I sort of sit in the camp of, no you didn't, you know, yes you, yes I think you've, yes I think you saw that.

5:12 Lee Yeah.

5:13 Adam I don't know if I would see that.

5:15 Chris Yeah, there's so much information about, you know, the brain now.

5:19 Chris And you know, yeah.

5:22 Chris Cognition and how we perceive vision and sounds and.

5:29 Lee So is that, is that I'll imagine you're in the same camp then Chris?

5:32 Chris I am.

5:33 Chris Well, so, growing up, I absolutely believed, I was like, yeah, I love it, ghosts are amazing, you know, monsters, it's all, yeah, and I was terrified of everything.

5:45 Chris And then, and then, as my story will tell, I became a non-believer.

5:52 Chris But I still, I still love the idea of, you know, magical realism.

5:55 Chris Like, there, there are, there's sort of levels of perception where if you just focus on exactly what appears to be real.

6:01 Chris You probably miss something that's, that's of value in the world, so it's not, it's not paranormal, but it's sort of an appreciation of, something that gives a sense of magic, perhaps, to experience.

6:12 Adam Yeah, there's definitely that element to it.

6:13 Adam I think the way I look at it, when I, like, like you, when I was a kid, it fascinated me, it still fascinates me.

6:20 Lee

6:21 Chris Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

6:22 Adam But it's in a weird way, I almost see it as linked to my state of mind or, you know, depression or whatever like that.

6:35 Adam In as much as it's like, yeah, I've gone on and I've, I've thought there, you know, I thought there were ghosts, I thought there was magic.

6:41 Adam And it turns out that the only things that are real are, you know, tax.

6:45 Lee Yeah.

6:46 Unknown Ha ha.

6:46 Lee Ha ha.

6:48 Adam You know, weaponized mass murder.

6:52 Adam You know.

6:53 Lee Illness and disease and.

6:55 Adam Yeah, you know.

6:56 Adam It's the the things that are real are are either sort of very unromantic or very tedious.

7:03 Adam And you know, so I think there's that sort of element there where you want something because you just feel it would be, you know.

7:11 Lee I think.

7:12 Chris Hallucinations are definitely real.

7:13 Adam You know, against a very sort of tawdry reality really, you know.

7:20 Lee I think that's where I come from as well.

7:21 Lee So I am an absolute 100% non-believer.

7:24 Lee but yeah, I mean, I do still sit here all day, every day, listening to podcasts about.

7:31 Chris Yeah.

7:31 Lee Holly Rectory and yeah, like.

7:33 Lee And I don't believe any of it, but I do love the idea, and I would love for it to, to, to get me.

7:40 Lee now, saying I'm an absolute 100% non-believer.

7:44 Lee I think it is, I think it is an important thing to point out that when people say, as you guys said, oh, I've seen something, I've heard something, or I live in a haunted house.

7:53 Lee I don't think those people are intentionally lying or after attention.

7:59 Adam No.

8:00 Lee I just believe, and and I'll I'll tell you my closest I came to a supernatural story.

8:04 Lee And hopefully it'll help to, to, to point what I mean.

8:08 Lee If you believe in the supernatural, when something slightly odd happens, you immediately go, well, it was a ghost.

8:16 Adam

8:16 Adam Yeah.

8:16 Lee That was a poltergeist.

8:17 Lee That noise downstairs, that was a poltergeist.

8:20 Lee It's only if you don't believe that and you go, I need to go deeper.

8:24 Lee So, so the closest we came, I, I've not told this.

8:27 Lee I think both of you have heard this story, but I've never told it on the podcast.

8:32 Lee So about 10 years ago, Lady Jennifer and I were house sitting.

8:39 Lee At a converted farm in Norfolk for some relatives.

8:43 Chris Oh, dangerous.

8:44 Lee And we were staying in a a lovely room that we've stayed in before, and I woke up.

8:51 Lee We, we watched Salem's Lot, I remember it perfectly clearly, we watched Salem's Lot, we had a couple of bottles of wine and we.

8:59 Chris Wait, wait, you have to tell us, I haven't seen Salem's Lot.

9:01 Lee It's a vampire movie, so it's just the fact it was a horror movie, rather than Salem's Lot specifically.

9:07 Adam Does also mean we're adding it to the list, Chris.

9:12 Lee Yeah.

9:12 Unknown Ha ha.

9:14 Lee and we went to bed, fell asleep.

9:18 Lee And I woke up in the early hours of the morning, and when I opened my eyes, above the bed, was floating.

9:25 Lee A white cloud and it was moving and undulating, and it was 100% there.

9:30 Lee And I thought.

9:31 Lee It isn't, it isn't real, my eyes are obviously still half asleep.

9:35 Lee If I lie here for a bit longer and wake up, it'll dissipate or I'll see what's causing it.

9:40 Lee And I laid there for about five minutes and it was still there.

9:44 Lee So in the end I thought, do you know what?

9:47 Lee I'm going to risk certain death and wake my wife up.

9:51 Lee And say.

9:51 Lee to her, you need to see this.

9:53 Lee And I turned over to see her laying there, wide awake, eyes open, watching it as well.

9:57 Lee And I went.

9:58 Lee You're seeing this, aren't you?

9:59 Lee And she said, if I say I'm not, can we pretend it isn't happening and go to sleep?

10:03 Lee No, I went yeah.

10:03 Lee And that was it, and that.

10:05 Lee Now, if we were believers, that would have been it, we there'd have been no further investigation, we'd have said, like we saw a ghost that night and we'd tell everybody that room is haunted, we definitely saw it, it was definitely there.

10:17 Lee Because neither of us will, unless literally a ghost comes in here and slaps me in the face, I will never believe it.

10:26 Lee So the next night, we were like, we definitely didn't see a ghost, we need to go and work out what happened.

10:31 Lee So we went back upstairs, once it got dark, but before we were tired or had drunk any wine.

10:37 Lee And lay down in the bed.

10:39 Lee And found that what it was, because it's an old farm, rather than the wall and the ceiling being at right angles.

10:46 Chris

10:47 Lee The wall sort of curved round into the ceiling.

10:52 Lee and it was art text and although the curtains were shut, there was a bit of light.

10:58 Lee In the flower bed below the window, they had solar lights.

11:04 Lee And growing up the wall, there was like Ivy, so what we were seeing was the light from solar lights coming over the top of the curtains and bending around the curved ceiling.

11:13 Lee And because the wind was blowing the Ivy, it was creating a, it creating shadows in the light that came up.

11:19 Lee And it created this.

11:20 Lee weird movement and because we were half asleep, you your eyes couldn't quite work out how far away it was.

11:25 Lee So it looked closer.

11:25 Lee And it was.

11:26 Lee Yeah, so that was what it was.

11:27 Lee But and that's.

11:28 Lee That's what I feel, I think people who believe in ghosts.

11:31 Lee And believe in the supernatural, as soon as something strange happens, will go, well, of course it was a ghost because they're real, so it was definitely that.

11:36 Lee Whereas those of us who don't go, yeah, I'm not, I'm not buying that.

11:42 Chris You're tempted to try and work it out.

11:45 Adam they've they've stopped at that explanation, they're not going to look further to see what the solution is.

11:50 Lee Yeah, precisely.

11:51 Adam It reminds me, it reminds me a bit of in Red Dwarf when they're talking about Rimmer with aliens.

12:05 Adam And Lister says to him, you think everything's aliens?

12:09 Adam The picture falls off the wall, that's aliens.

12:11 Lee Ha ha.

12:12 Adam Can't find your keys, that's aliens.

12:14 Adam That time we used a whole bog roll in a day, you said that was aliens.

12:18 Lee Ha ha.

12:18 Unknown Ha ha.

12:20 Adam And I think it is, you know, you you're not going to like you say, you don't if you're, if that is, if that's something you believe in, you won't necessarily explore beyond that.

12:30 Chris

12:31 Adam I think the interesting thing that comes up a lot of the time is when you hear people who you would.

12:38 Adam For want of a better phrase, describe as rational, because I'm not saying people who believe in ghosts are irrational because if there's no proof.

12:45 Adam You can't prove a negative anymore than you can prove a positive.

12:48 Lee Absolutely.

12:49 Adam But.

12:50 Adam So it's not irrational or sort of, you know, it's not delusional or anything like that.

12:54 Adam It's just someone who has different thoughts, you know, a different reality.

12:58 Lee Someone who you assume will think the same way you do, and then when they don't, you go, oh, that's interesting.

13:04 Adam And I think yeah, and it's, it's very interesting when it's people who are like, I don't believe in ghosts, here's the ghost I, here's the experience I had.

13:12 Lee Yeah.

13:12 Adam Because usually they have gone through, well, I know there was no one else in the house, I went and checked and, you know, I've definitely you, you know, whatever the sort of they've looked into it.

13:24 Lee Yeah.

13:25 Adam And not found a, you know, not found an explanation that satisfies them.

13:33 Lee Yeah.

13:34 Adam You know.

13:35 Adam And I think that's a really interesting sort of area.

13:41 Adam

13:42 Adam I also think.

13:43 Chris Sorry mate.

13:44 Lee No, no, go on.

13:46 Adam No, no, I think I was just rambling to be honest.

13:48 Lee Because I was just about to say on that note of you guys had anything happened to you.

13:52 Lee That feel that that someone that when you tell people, they go, well that's supernatural.

13:57 Lee And you go, well no, I don't believe it is, but I've not yet found an explanation for it.

14:02 Lee Have either of you ever had anything like that?

14:05 Adam I've, I've, well, for a start, I'm going to say this, I've seen a couple of UFOs.

14:10 Adam In the most strict sense.

14:14 Adam In that I've seen things in the sky that I don't know what they are.

14:17 Chris Very hard to explain.

14:18 Adam Yeah.

14:20 Adam But that's not.

14:22 Adam Do you know what I mean, that that that's just.

14:25 Adam It's fucking high up in the sky and I don't know.

14:29 Chris Well, we've even happened recently in in America where they were shooting down things and who knows what they were, but they were almost certainly some sort of weather or scientific device.

14:36 Lee Yeah.

14:37 Adam So I mean, I'll I mean, I'll I'll say this one.

14:40 Adam Now, I won't say who I was with because I haven't had a chance to ask them.

14:47 Adam Whether they want it broadcast, I won't name the person.

14:50 Adam But.

14:51 Adam basically we would, on a reasonably regular basis.

14:56 Adam Go and get lost in my car because it was kind of like.

15:01 Adam We're bored, so.

15:03 Lee Good fun.

15:04 Lee Those of us in the back could take a six-pack of road sodas and we'd just let Adam get us lost in the countryside, it was great.

15:10 Adam It was brilliant.

15:10 Adam And yeah, and I remember it was, it was just us two, and

15:16 Adam I was and Lee can attest to this that I spent probably far too long quite straight edge.

15:24 Lee Yes.

15:25 Adam Not intentionally, like as in, you know, not not X's on my hands and listening to minor threat, I was just.

15:32 Adam I just.

15:33 Adam I just didn't sort of, you know, mostly because I like driving and it was like, well, I can't drive if I'm out my fucking face, so I'll have to, you know, I'll rein it in.

15:41 Adam I won't.

15:41 Adam and so I was stone cold sober, the person who was with me was stoned.

15:46 Adam I know that.

15:47 Adam because fuck me, he was awake.

15:50 Adam So, yeah, he probably was.

15:51 Lee I know this is.

15:52 Adam Yeah.

15:52 Adam And.

15:53 Adam

15:53 Adam And as we were driving through it was Brentwood, I think.

15:57 Adam And we were driving through.

15:58 Adam And I can only say we saw a manta ray fly across the sort of above the car.

16:04 Adam From one side of the, so you're going down a road with lines of trees either side and it basically flew from, I think from the left over the car and and it looked like a manta ray.

16:14 Adam But it was going really fucking fast.

16:16 Lee Wow.

16:17 Adam And, but both of us saw it as a manta ray and it wasn't, we didn't seem to.

16:25 Adam Do you know it wasn't one person suggested it and then the other, you know.

16:30 Lee And then the other one, a little bit like that, yeah, yeah.

16:32 Chris Yeah, that is the funny thing when it is just both at the same time.

16:36 Adam So we both think, absolutely no idea what it was.

16:39 Chris

16:39 Adam Probably just, I don't know, could have been a bat trapped in a fucking carrier bag.

16:44 Adam A really thick owl.

16:47 Adam But.

16:48 Adam You know.

16:48 Adam It was.

16:49 Chris Something that just looked like a manta ray.

16:51 Lee

16:51 Adam Somehow it looked like a manta ray.

16:53 Adam And it felt I don't know, it was probably it felt a bit like sort of it, now I look back at it, it's kind of like numb.

17:02 Lee Yeah.

17:03 Chris Yeah.

17:03 Chris But it's funny but it being a manta ray, almost, like, you can't easily tell that and people believe it, because it sounds a bit too silly, but it's like that is actually, that is truthfully what you thought it was, it's not like you decided, let's let's change that to make it sound somehow more like.

17:15 Adam No, this was this was the nearest the nearest thing to what we saw and unless face it at that point, not not in a position you would usually see it.

17:23 Lee Yeah.

17:24 Adam You know, it's like, it's like finding a fucking elephant on Marlon Chew.

17:30 Lee Ha ha.

17:31 Adam You know.

17:32 Adam It's sort of like, I only saw it briefly, but I'm sure it was an elephant.

17:37 Chris Ha ha.

17:38 Adam You know.

17:39 Adam That incidentally, that is not a story, I haven't seen an at mile end.

17:43 Adam Just putting that out there.

17:46 Adam and then.

17:47 Adam The only other story that I have would be, and I don't, I don't know if you remember this Lee, but I was with you.

17:55 Adam And we were with, someone who I would imagine is probably okay with us mentioning.

18:00 Lee He will be fine, I'm sure.

18:01 Adam Yeah.

18:02 Adam so and actually big, big shout out to Wes.

18:05 Adam He's not, he's not very well at the moment, so.

18:07 Adam You know.

18:08 Adam Wishing you well, brother.

18:09 Lee Yeah.

18:09 Adam And.

18:10 Adam Yeah.

18:11 Adam He's so so it was Wesley who does.

18:15 Adam Mos Eisley Happy Hour with us and has guested on the show.

18:18 Adam And.

18:19 Adam As his own.

18:20 Lee And did our logo.

18:21 Adam Yeah.

18:22 Lee Yeah.

18:22 Adam And has his own.

18:23 Adam podcast.

18:25 Lee Unexplained.

18:26 Adam Unexplained.

18:26 Lee Yeah, love it.

18:27 Adam Interestingly enough, you know, deals with a lot of these sort of things.

18:31 Adam And where's, where's I think comes from I, I would like to think that I follow a sort of Foran thing with unusual events.

18:37 Adam Of, well, I like hearing about them and speculate you know, over them.

18:42 Adam But the Foran thing is like, right, we're just going to present you with the bare bones, here's what happened, you know, it rained fish in Kent last Wednesday or whatever it is.

18:42 Lee Yeah.

18:48 Lee Yeah, like what caused it and what, yeah.

18:51 Adam That genuinely did happen and then yeah, the rest of it's up to you if you want to.

18:54 Lee Yeah.

18:54 Adam Explain that.

18:56 Adam Exactly, yeah.

18:57 Adam And.

18:57 Adam

18:58 Adam But yeah, so it was.

19:00 Adam me and you and Wes and we were over,

19:04 Adam

19:05 Adam The church, Hornchurch.

19:07 Lee The Hornchurch, yes.

19:08 Adam Yeah.

19:09 Adam So this is in Hornchurch and Hornchurch gets its name from the horned church.

19:12 Chris It's got horns on it.

19:12 Adam Because it's got horns on it, it's got a like a bull head, isn't it, on the one of the one of the sides.

19:18 Adam And.

19:19 Adam We were we were over there at night, obviously.

19:22 Adam Because we were sort of, you know, Goths and Metallers.

19:26 Adam And you know, the cider flowed for, I don't know.

19:31 Adam But actually again, I would have been sober because I was driving.

19:33 Adam But

19:35 Adam but we were over, I remember we were over there.

19:39 Adam And I can't quite remember the the sort of chronology of events.

19:44 Adam But basically we sort of got a bit spooked by hanging around in a graveyard after dark, you know, I mean, that's that's.

19:52 Adam And again, this is half the factor, it's again, where you expect to see things.

19:58 Lee

19:59 Adam So if you're in a graveyard at night, are you more likely to go that was something supernatural or something.

20:06 Chris You think, you think your mind is primed for such an experience in that situation.

20:09 Adam Oh, it's yeah.

20:11 Adam It's you expect rationality to kick in, but rationality's got fuck all to do with.

20:15 Adam Yeah.

20:15 Chris Yeah, the experience in that moment is whatever it is.

20:20 Adam And so we were over the graveyard, we got a bit spooked.

20:24 Adam And so we made our way across the graveyard and there was like a a long drive.

20:28 Adam Down the side of it that led to the car park, so we thought right, we'll go over to that.

20:33 Adam And then just make our way down it's it's got lights and everything, you know.

20:36 Adam So.

20:38 Adam As we were doing that, we kind of started feeling we kept hearing stuff going on behind us, like we were being followed.

20:44 Adam you know, sort of but it would stop as we stopped.

20:48 Adam So we finally got to this path and the path has quite a thick.

20:52 Adam Or did then, I haven't been there for years, had like quite a thick hedge like down running that sort of separated it from the graveyard.

20:58 Adam And.

20:59 Adam As we were walking along.

21:01 Adam We were sort of going and then there was, and admittedly.

21:05 Adam Could have been any one of us, but there was a sudden smell of shit.

21:09 Adam Because and, you know, there's always the thing where it's the devil is marked by the smell of poo.

21:16 Adam But yeah, we were sort of walking around it was like, Jesus.

21:19 Adam And we we it was so strong we stopped.

21:23 Adam And then something started coming through the bush towards us.

21:29 Adam Like through the hedge.

21:30 Adam And it was fucking loud and it sounded like it was fucking big.

21:35 Adam So we broke into a run.

21:39 Adam And sort of, went a bit further.

21:41 Adam We were heading down the path.

21:44 Adam But then about the midway point from where we'd run from to our destination, the end of the path and the car park.

21:52 Adam Suddenly we just were lit from above like a strobe light.

21:58 Adam

21:59 Adam For about, I don't know, two or three seconds.

22:02 Adam It wasn't long.

22:03 Adam But it was enough that we sort of stopped, stared up and just into this blinking light.

22:10 Adam And then it stopped again and everything was quiet.

22:13 Adam And we fucking kept running.

22:15 Adam But it was enough of a weird moment that we actually stopped running to sort of be like, what the fuck?

22:22 Adam And yeah, and genuinely, that's that's the story.

22:25 Adam I have no fucking idea.

22:28 Adam what what was there, so, you know.

22:30 Lee Wow.

22:31 Lee See now I remember it slightly differently, but I can tell you the reason we were in that graveyard was my fault because.

22:40 Unknown Ha ha.

22:41 Lee I had been encouraged by some friends at school and we stayed over there on Halloween night.

22:49 Unknown Ha ha.

22:50 Lee And again, a bit like the incident when I was with you, my memory of it is different to what theirs was.

22:58 Lee So they came away and were like, oh my god, this and I was like, it's not quite how I remember it.

23:01 Lee But okay.

23:03 Lee So, and especially when I went back with you guys.

23:05 Lee And I think I worked out what had happened.

23:07 Lee So we spent the night in the graveyard.

23:10 Lee Very little had happened, we just sat around as you mentioned, drunk a lot of cider and talked shit for a while.

23:15 Lee At some point in the night, we went for a walk.

23:18 Lee Now the story.

23:20 Lee That everyone had the same story.

23:25 Lee Was that at one point, we walked, we decided to get up and go for a walk to keep ourselves awake because we wanted to stay awake all night in case we saw something.

23:34 Lee We walked through a clearing and it was suddenly as if it was broad daylight.

23:38 Lee And there was a noise and when we turned around.

23:42 Lee There was a dead bird that we were convinced had just fallen out of the tree.

23:47 Lee And we all ran and we got out the graveyard and we didn't go back.

23:53 Lee Now.

23:53 Lee My recollection is that we were walking around to try and stay awake, we went into a clearing that was slightly better lit.

24:02 Lee Which allowed us to see something on the floor that could have been a dead bird.

24:05 Lee Somebody shouted run and we all ran and that's all I remember.

24:09 Lee And then.

24:10 Lee When.

24:10 Lee When I went back with Adam and Wes, what I realized is the walk that we'd taken to try and keep ourselves away.

24:15 Lee Had taken us close to that path that we were just talking about.

24:18 Lee Which had street lights over it.

24:20 Lee So all that had happened is, we'd walked, we'd been sitting for six hours in the pitch black and we'd gone somewhere a bit lighter.

24:27 Lee And spotted a dead bird and somebody shit themselves, so therefore we all ran away.

24:31 Lee So what had happened is, we'd gone back because I wanted to show you where it was and we'd walked the same walk.

24:36 Lee Except we'd walked right to the end of the graveyard, joined that path and walked back down.

24:40 Lee But the only bit of any of that I remember was us walking along and then Wes going, did you hear that?

24:48 Lee You saying yes, and then him shouting run, and then we ran.

24:50 Lee And I don't remember.

24:51 Lee Anything other than that.

24:52 Lee But it was a long time ago, so.

24:54 Adam Yes.

24:55 Adam It was well, it was a long time ago and also in in fairness, you probably had a drink.

25:00 Adam So.

25:00 Lee Probably had, yeah.

25:02 Adam But.

25:03 Adam Equally, yeah, that is something I have no explanation for and probably there are thousand and one people, billions of people who can give me any, you know, a number of rationalizations.

25:16 Adam And please, please do, because yeah, I still don't know what the fuck happened.

25:20 Adam And I sort of, and it's weird, it's not, it's never been something that's driven me to curiosity in a weird way.

25:29 Adam I think there's a part of it that's like, I, if that is something dodgy that you've touched in terms of, you know, super weirdness or supernatural or whatever like that.

25:44 Adam It's like, I'll just leave it there.

25:47 Adam I've I've had a brush with it.

25:50 Adam If it is real, but it's that sort of real, fuck that.

25:52 Lee Ha ha.

25:52 Adam You know, it's sort of, I don't know.

25:54 Adam So.

25:55 Adam But yeah.

25:56 Adam What about you, Chris?

25:57 Adam Have you.

25:59 Adam Experienced the strange.

26:44 Chris Oh, well, I just experienced a very strange thing of the internet going unstable.

26:50 Chris Just at, just at the point.

26:53 Chris It's where the true ghosts are.

26:54 Lee Ha ha.

26:56 Adam All those accounts written by people who are no longer with us.

27:02 Lee yeah, so Chris, anything ever happen to you?

27:04 Unknown Yeah.

27:06 Unknown

27:09 Unknown

27:09 Lee I guess we lost him.

27:11 Adam I think we might have done.

27:12 Lee Yeah.

27:13 Lee That's right, well we'll give him five minutes.

27:15 Lee in in the meantime.

27:17 Lee I will use this as my opportunity, now although I say I'm not a believer and I do have my love of ghost stories, et cetera.

27:24 Lee I do have that thing, you know it's like when you do something and it hurts.

27:28 Lee So you know not to do it, but you keep doing it.

27:32 Adam Like your scalp.

27:33 Lee My one of those is watching Most Haunted and those type shows.

27:38 Lee Because.

27:39 Lee I know they are going to send me into a spiral of rage.

27:44 Lee But I can't fucking help watching them.

27:46 Lee But they drive me mental.

27:48 Lee and the one I watched recently that did it most of all.

27:52 Lee And literally, I think about three times, I had to go, because it was about 1:00 in the morning.

27:57 Lee I was.

27:58 Lee watching it in the bedroom, I thought I'll just watch it quietly, so I don't wake you up.

28:03 Lee And then I kept going, oh, fuck off now, come on.

28:06 Adam Ha ha.

28:07 Lee And it was 28 Days Haunted.

28:13 Adam Right.

28:14 Lee Which is a Netflix original show.

28:16 Lee It was basically.

28:17 Lee So they claimed, alarm bell started from the very off, so the intro is the Warrens.

28:24 Adam Oh, fuck yeah.

28:25 Lee I was like, right, that's a fucking alarm.

28:26 Adam Hell.

28:27 Lee Yeah.

28:27 Lee Claimed.

28:29 Lee Claimed that, they had decided that after 28 days being alone, locked in a house that is haunted, that was the optimum time for you.

28:40 Lee The 28th day was when the ghosts would reveal themselves and blah, blah, blah.

28:46 Adam

28:47 Lee Now, they then said.

28:48 Lee They tested this on the 4,000 hauntings that they investigated.

28:53 Lee So just to give you an idea, I've done the math.

28:55 Lee If they did, I know they're not saying they did it on everyone.

28:57 Lee But just to give you a rough idea, had they done 28 days investigation on 4,000 huntings.

29:00 Lee They would have had to have been investigating for 333 years.

29:04 Adam Yeah.

29:05 Lee Now I know they look pretty fucking ropy.

29:06 Lee But they didn't look that bad.

29:08 Lee

29:10 Lee So that was the premise of the show.

29:12 Lee What actually, so they got these groups of ghost hunters.

29:16 Lee Dropped them off, so they blindfold them, drove them somewhere that is supposedly super haunted but not famous enough that they would know anything about it and dropped them off.

29:25 Lee To see what would happen.

29:27 Lee And a lot of them didn't know each other.

29:29 Lee So they were like, one of them was a medium and one of them was a tech.

29:34 Adam Astral.

29:35 Lee Yeah.

29:35 Adam Yeah.

29:35 Lee Yeah.

29:37 Lee yeah, and they'd basically isolate them in this house.

29:41 Lee What inevitably happened in all of them was within the first 24 hours, they had miraculously by various types of nonsense bullshit.

29:48 Lee Worked out what the ghost was, who it was, who where it had died, what its name was, the relationship to the like basically everything in the first 24 hours.

29:59 Lee And what then subsequently happened in the next 27 days is they got to fucking hate each other's guts.

30:05 Lee And that was it, that was all the show was.

30:07 Lee And it was so much bullshit.

30:10 Lee So much like.

30:13 Lee the spirits must be draining him because all he's doing is sleeping.

30:17 Lee No, there's him and a woman in the house, he hates her, there's no distraction, no internet, no TV, no outside world, of course he's sleeping the whole time because he's got no options but to sleep, or fucking talking to that mad old trout.

30:27 Lee Of course he's going to spend the whole time in bed, nothing draining him.

30:30 Adam Ha ha.

30:32 Lee yes, so it ended up rather a lot of me screaming, oh, fuck off now.

30:36 Adam Ha ha.

30:36 Adam Ha ha.

30:37 Adam Go on.

30:38 Adam See, I think that, I think that's another thing.

30:41 Adam And weirdly enough, I don't know whether it connects to the magic sort of side of things.

30:45 Lee

30:46 Adam You know, like, like I was saying about the like the loss of magic and the sort of loss of wonder.

30:51 Adam Is, I think that when people exploit it and you can see them exploiting it, you know, and they're exploiting other people's beliefs.

31:00 Adam Like, sort of, you know, when it's you get like spiritualist cold reading audiences.

31:03 Lee Yeah.

31:04 Adam And stuff like that, I just think that's fucking despicable.

31:08 Adam Especially when it especially when ghosts and stuff like that.

31:11 Adam Because you generally are intruding on grief.

31:14 Lee

31:14 Lee It is, and I think that's the other thing with me as well.

31:17 Lee Is because like I was, you know, we were saying, you know, if it was scientifically provable, it definitely would have been by now.

31:23 Lee So why do so many people still believe?

31:26 Lee And I think it's shows like this, I think if you took all this nonsense propaganda away.

31:32 Lee Like people just go, yeah, we used to believe that, but we didn't know any better.

31:36 Lee And it was just, and I mean, I I I'd never want the idea of the supernatural to disappear.

31:39 Lee Because I find it so utterly fascinating.

31:42 Lee So I would be gutted if there was suddenly categorical proof.

31:46 Lee 100% there are no ghosts.

31:48 Lee I am 100% convinced there are none.

31:50 Lee But the fact that it isn't prove, it can't be proved is what still gives me that little tingle.

31:54 Lee Although I would never believe it.

31:56 Lee It's still that.

31:57 Chris Yeah, there's some excitement to it.

31:58 Adam Definitely.

31:59 Adam Yeah.

32:00 Adam And I think that probably is what bears into the horror thing.

32:02 Lee Yeah.

32:02 Adam That's why we enjoy horror.

32:04 Lee It makes it possible for a while, even if it isn't real, it gives you.

32:08 Adam Exactly.

32:08 Adam This is a world in which it happens.

32:10 Lee And you go, oh.

32:11 Lee I really wish that was real.

32:15 Chris Well, I'm hoping, I'm hoping I've killed the Gremlins now.

32:17 Chris And I can tell you all about my horror experience.

32:21 Lee Oh, yes.

32:22 Chris So.

32:24 Chris so I, I did absolutely believe when I was very young, like I said.

32:29 Chris And throughout school, there was this, this tale of the White Lady, you know, whispers and and and people saying they'd definitely seen her.

32:37 Chris And it's like, wow, and it's just this built up in in a lot of our minds.

32:44 Chris And and I'd never seen anything else, you know, I'd read lots of books about all sorts of different hauntings around.

32:47 Chris And it's like, I've never seen anything, okay, right.

32:51 Chris And then this, this came to a point where it's like, no, we've got to see, I've got to find out the truth of this.

32:56 Chris So it was over in Had Hill over the manor.

33:00 Chris in in Duckwood and it was meant to be around a lake.

33:05 Chris Now, it's a small pond, or is it, it's a small lake?

33:08 Chris I don't know, maybe I got the wrong one, but it was a, it was a dark night.

33:11 Chris I was that's it, I'm heading out on my own on my bike.

33:14 Chris And I was getting scared because I was at the age where you get very scared and it it's dark in there and there's no one around.

33:19 Chris And you come up and the the lake's like it's covered in green algae.

33:23 Chris It looks, it looks like the right sort of place.

33:26 Lee Yeah.

33:26 Chris So, so as you come up to it, you know, your heart starts beating and you're thinking nothing's going to happen, nothing's going to happen.

33:31 Chris But you're terrified.

33:35 Chris And get to the lake.

33:36 Chris Riding around.

33:38 Chris And.

33:39 Chris Of course, nothing happens.

33:40 Adam

33:41 Chris And so all these people that had promised it, it definitely will.

33:44 Chris It definitely will.

33:45 Chris And I think that was one of the times where that's it, my brain went, this doesn't exist.

33:51 Chris This is definitely people making it up, people seeing things and they believe it.

33:56 Chris Because this was, this was it, this was the one time that I was definitely going to see something.

33:59 Chris Now, I, I do have friends who still say they did see it.

34:03 Chris They have since tried to explain it as deer, probably missed, you know, again.

34:09 Chris Like at night, tired, possibly drunk.

34:12 Lee These misty deers hanging around.

34:14 Adam Yeah.

34:15 Chris Yeah.

34:15 Chris But.

34:16 Chris But, but it was funny right, so, so actually it built up more in my mind because I pictured this white lady as being the white ghost at the start of Ghostbusters in the library.

34:25 Chris And so that just kept coming to my mind as I'm, I'm getting there.

34:29 Chris But, yeah.

34:30 Chris So, but it's funny, I looked it up online just to see, did, did was this a wider phenomenon?

34:33 Chris Known about.

34:33 Chris And, and I found this.

34:34 Chris It said, the Golden Lion is on the site of Britain's oldest operating public house, at the end of the century, the church brought it to, brought it to replace with a coaching tavern for pilgrims and travelers, and in 1402, the lion, as it was then known, first opened its doors, there were about 23 ghosts that have manifested themselves, including a female ghost named the White Lady, she was murdered in nearby Haled Hill in the 1890s, who celebrated her wedding reception in the pub.

34:55 Chris Several people have seen her over the years, and a psychic recently claimed she could feel her presence and said she's here in the picture, and sure enough a photograph was found of the ghost lady standing in the nearby marketplace.

35:06 Chris Never has an exorcism been required, the Golden Lion ghosts are nice ghosts, said a local historian.

35:10 Lee I have been for a ghost walk.

35:12 Lee Around the Golden Lion.

35:15 Lee I've been for a ghost walk pretty much anywhere I've traveled.

35:21 Lee Not just I've done, I mean, Salem.

35:23 Lee If I go anywhere and there's a ghost walk available.

35:26 Lee I'm on that shit every time.

35:28 Adam Yeah.

35:28 Chris Yeah.

35:28 Adam Again.

35:29 Adam It's that that's

35:31 Adam You know, again, it's one of those things where you just want to hear about that.

35:34 Adam Because I think there's there's something the other thing is that the ghost is almost like keeping the history alive.

35:41 Lee Yes.

35:42 Adam You know, it's sort of, in a weird, odd way it commemorates things and stuff like that.

35:46 Adam Because it's like, it's the ghost of blah, blah, blah.

35:48 Adam Because of blah, blah, blah.

35:50 Chris Yeah.

35:50 Adam So.

35:52 Chris And and on the point of aliens, I've never been abducted.

35:55 Chris Although some people think I possibly have been at points in my life.

35:58 Chris And I'm still waiting for the probe, but that's not come yet either.

36:01 Adam It's just, it's just the vibe you give off.

36:03 Lee You know what, I've got two very interesting stories about strange memories I have that I cannot explain.

36:09 Lee But there isn't time to do it tonight.

36:13 Adam Oh, that.

36:13 Chris That could be a follow-up.

36:14 Lee We'll bring it up at some point.

36:15 Lee It one of them is a is a 100% a dream but there was something about it that was very unnerving.

36:22 Lee The other one is an experience that happened, and it's strange because my memory absolutely remembers it clear as day, but my thought process at the time was so wrong for what I should have been thinking that I've never quite managed to justify it.

36:36 Lee So it clearly is one of those strange brain anomalies.

36:40 Lee You know, the same way that people who have sleep paralysis hallucinate the same thing.

36:44 Chris I do get that.

36:45 Chris I get, I get the Grim Reaper standing above me with sleep paralysis.

36:49 Adam Fucking hell.

36:50 Lee Fucking hell.

36:51 Adam No wonder people think you've been abducted by aliens.

36:55 Lee But yeah, the the sleep paralysis.

36:57 Lee Documentary that used to be on Netflix, I think it was, called Nightmare.

37:02 Lee That was one of the most fascinating things I've ever watched, it was so strange.

37:06 Adam Oh.

37:07 Lee Oh.

37:07 Adam Go on.

37:08 Lee yeah, I was going to say, we should probably wrap it up here.

37:12 Lee As, as exciting as it is.

37:17 Lee but we will definitely be back for another chat like this at some point, and I think we should, we should bring on some people who have genuinely got.

37:23 Chris Yeah.

37:24 Adam Yeah.

37:25 Lee Yeah.

37:25 Adam Absolutely.

37:26 Lee I'd be.

37:27 Lee I'd be very keen to, yeah.

37:28 Lee If someone can.

37:29 Chris You'll be accused of what the BBC is accused of soon.

37:33 Unknown Ha ha.

37:34 Lee Being files.

37:35 Adam Ha ha.

37:36 Adam I was going to say.

37:37 Adam We haven't hidden like systemic pedophilia.

37:39 Lee Ha ha.

37:41 Chris Yeah, I wasn't going quite that far, just being a little bit one-sided.

37:44 Lee Oh, right.

37:44 Lee I see you.

37:45 Adam I thought for that.

37:46 Lee I didn't know how.

37:47 Lee I mean, I had a suspicion, but yeah, because we'd never really discussed it, and that was what struck me, the fact that we're such good friends, and we discuss films and all the rest of it in such detail.

37:55 Lee And I was like, you know what, I don't think we've ever actually sat down and said, do you believe or not?

38:00 Lee So I thought it, you know, get the mics on and we'll.

38:02 Chris I believe in amazing films.

38:04 Lee Yeah.

38:04 Unknown Ha ha.

38:04 Adam Ha ha.

38:05 Adam Well.

38:06 Adam Well, if if people, if listeners like this, let us know and we'll definitely do more.

38:10 Lee Yeah.

38:10 Adam You know.

38:10 Lee I know.

38:11 Lee I know.

38:12 Adam It's it's a nice little chat and we didn't have to watch a film.

38:15 Lee Yeah.

38:15 Lee And I'll be like my close stories.

38:17 Lee Right, thanks very much for listening, everybody.

38:19 Lee Good night.

38:19 Chris Good night.

38:20 Adam Good night.